44 mag loaded too hot?

[Scrumbag]

Hi folks,

Hope this finds everyone well. I am continuing my journing into the realms of loading straight wall cartridges and specifically .44 mag.

I had a range session today and wondered if there was a problem with my loads in my 20" barrel 44 mag Chiappa 1892 clone. The primers look to be flowing to me:

This is a within book load for a 210gr Sierra JHC with H110

Then I shot some factory loaded 230gr Geco

Notice the "interesting" primer shapes

Then I checked back to some factory 200gr cast lead Magtech / CBC "Cowboy" (Very soft shooting) loads:

To me even these primers look a little "Interesting"

So, any thoughts would be welcome. The rifle was not in any way stiff to open, suffered extraction problems nor did the brass appear marked / damaged / stretched.

Thoughts very welcome

Here's a group at 50yds with rested elbows and a shot of rifle in situ.

Thanks in advance,

Scrummy

 

[rammac]

The problem is probably the finish on the bolt face and the size of the firing pin hole, not the load.

 

[Scrumbag]

The problem is probably the finish on the bolt face and the size of the firing pin hole, not the load.

Right. Worth trying to fix?

 

[riflewoman]

Whether it’s worth trying to fix or not... this depends on your projected usage. It doesn’t seem to affect the brass or reload ability so there’s that. Without looking closely at the primers I can’t say if hotter loads will fail the primer... but you might try Magnum primers and CCI brand in oarticular.

 

[M-61]

CCI brand in oarticular.

Lost me here.

 

[Yote Hunter]

In particular

 

[Scrumbag]

Whether it’s worth trying to fix or not... this depends on your projected usage. It doesn’t seem to affect the brass or reload ability so there’s that. Without looking closely at the primers I can’t say if hotter loads will fail the primer... but you might try Magnum primers and CCI brand in oarticular.

Thanks. The primers for the hand load (PPU brass) are Magtech large pistol. I will experiment with a magnum large pistol primers.

 

[acloco]

Post a picture of the boltface please.

 

[Bill K]

Having the bolt face/firing pin bushed may smooth out the primer crater, etc. But if your load is shooting that good and it does the job on deer, etc. why worry about it ? Just enjoy it.

 

[Uncle Ed]

I think the primers you reloaded with "might" be on the soft side. Your top photo looks just like a case head swipe on your primer.

And the problem may also be the firing pin is much smaller than the firing pin hole in the bolt face. Meaning the primer is flowing into the gap around the firing pin.

Also, notice the factory loaded ammo did not have any primer flow. Meaning the primer cup was either thicker or harder. Try other brands of magnum primers

 

[wagonman]

using a standard lp primer with h110 is not really a good idea anyway

 

[Rsadams]

+1 bolt face and firing pin hole are the problem....

 

[Uncle Ed]

Below a good read on primers and proper applications.

NOTE, do not take this the wrong way "BUT" if you made a workup load starting at the suggested start load and work up the primers and cases will tell you a great deal.

That being said there is only one grain difference between the start load and max load at the Hodgdons load data website. And some sources only have one load given for H110 and 296.

CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0

 

[Twicepop]

Thanks. The primers for the hand load (PPU brass) are Magtech large pistol. I will experiment with a magnum large pistol primers.

I purchased a large amount of range brass once (very inexpensive) that had MANY CBC (Magtech) brass among the mix. When sizing the brass a very large number of the CBC cases I had to pitch because the bottom of the primer cup punched out, but the sides didn't leaving me with an unusable case. My experience with Magtech primers is a whole lot less than positive, kinda like what you're experiencing. Try a different brand of primers if you can. If the problem persists, you may need to get the firing pin hole bushed.

 

[Clark]

This WIn 92 was made in 1900 and it has bolt face erosion. The twist of the bore is slow.
12 gr Lil'Gun 75 gr Sierra hollow point .257 bullets #1600, 1.9" OAL [barely touching the lands] must be loaded single shot into the 1900 vintage Winchester 1892 rifle with 2X Leupold pistol scope. At 12.3 gr it looks like the old black powder firing pin and enlarged firing pin hole are about to bust the CCI 450 small rifle magnum primer bubble, so I backed off 0.3 gr and loaded some.

 

[Scrumbag]

Having the bolt face/firing pin bushed may smooth out the primer crater, etc. But if your load is shooting that good and it does the job on deer, etc. why worry about it ? Just enjoy it.

Thanks. Just not used to "pistol" cases and the dire warnings about over / underfilled cases and compressed / not compressed enough loads

 

[Scrumbag]

using a standard lp primer with h110 is not really a good idea anyway

Thanks. The load data I used came from Hodgdon and stated a Remington 2 1/2 Large pistol primer so used that

 

[Scrumbag]

Below a good read on primers and proper applications.

NOTE, do not take this the wrong way "BUT" if you made a workup load starting at the suggested start load and work up the primers and cases will tell you a great deal.

That being said there is only one grain difference between the start load and max load at the Hodgdons load data website. And some sources only have one load given for H110 and 296.

CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0

Hi Uncle Ed.

I worked up 26.0, 26.3, 26.6 and 26.9gr loads, all had the same primer issues.

I noticed really rubbish obturation (sooty case) and not a great group with the 26.0gr load. Sweet spot seemed to be between 26.3 and 26.6 so I shall experiment more in there.

Afraid I can't get to that "Primer on Primers" for some reason but thanks anyway.

Scrummy

 

[Scrumbag]

I purchased a large amount of range brass once (very inexpensive) that had MANY CBC (Magtech) brass among the mix. When sizing the brass a very large number of the CBC cases I had to pitch because the bottom of the primer cup punched out, but the sides didn't leaving me with an unusable case. My experience with Magtech primers is a whole lot less than positive, kinda like what you're experiencing. Try a different brand of primers if you can. If the problem persists, you may need to get the firing pin hole bushed.

Thanks. The Magtech primers perform great with the limited amount of 240gr and Unique loads I have tried with them. Might see if I can find a magnum or just a different brand of primers for the next batch.

Scrummy

 

[Scrumbag]

I think the primers you reloaded with "might" be on the soft side. Your top photo looks just like a case head swipe on your primer.

Sorry, forgive my ignorance but "swipe"?

Also, notice the factory loaded ammo did not have any primer flow. Meaning the primer cup was either thicker or harder. Try other brands of magnum primers#

Ah, 2 factory loads: Geco - 44 mag, CBC - 44 special and a "Cowboy" load.

(My handload is in the PPU brass)

Scrummy