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Hmmm... what's going on here?

So... some unexpected results from an initial load development session recently. Both targets were shot on the same day, following a few fouling shots.

I shot 17 different charge weights of N150, and then 17 of N550. Normally I don't go to the bother of shooting paper, as I'm shooting over a chronograph and I'm primarily interested in pressure signs.

In the past, when I have shot at paper, I would expect to see the POI wandering around in a similar fashion to what you see in the N150 target – although perhaps not quite as dramatically.

I've never seen a 17 shot string – which spans 3.20gn of powder, and 232fps ES – shoot as tight as the N550 target. Given that I had locked down every other variable, and specifically seating depth, I wasn't expecting the N550 target to look anything like it did.

Please note that on the N150 target, the lowest shot at 5 o'clock doesn't correspond to the lowest MV, and similarly, the highest shot at 11 o'clock doesn't correspond to the highest MV. Furthermore, where the N150 has common MVs to the N550 (2819–2897fps range) those POIs aren't occurring exclusively in the 11 o'clock area – they are wandering all over the place.

Working with an 8x scope with a relatively large floating centre dot, I actually thought I had only put 2/3 shots into the N550 target as I was performing the test. I got quite a pleasant surprise when I realised how the N550 had performed.

These results seem to cast some doubt on the common assertion that group size is almost exclusively determined by seating depth.

I can't understand why two identical projectiles exiting the barrel with near identical MVs – one propelled by N150 and one by N550 – would have such wildly differing POIs?

Clearly powder choice has a larger bearing on group size, than the "powder charge for MV and seating depth for group size" mantra would have you believe.

Have you guys ever experienced anything like this?
 

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I've had that happen once before.
7mm-08AI with Sierra 160gr HPBT GameKings and RL19.
Had to redo test at 200 yards to get separation.
Only time i've had that happen.
 
I shoot N550 in my 30.06 behind a 215gr Hybrid, 2.5gr spread will go in one ragged hole at a 110y.
From 52.5gr to 53.5gr its one hole, most consistent powder I have ever used, a bit dirty but you cant win them all

Going off memory now but last time i checked the speed there was something like a 15 or 18fps spread between 52.5 to 53.5gr, N560 behind a 215gr turns that 30.06 just about in to a magnum caliber but I cant get the same consistent accuracy with N560 in that rifle that i get with N550.

I use N540 in 308 behind a 168gr Berger and its also very consistent, for what I do with that rifle I don't even measure powder just dump it and seat and out to 300y or so it just hammers even with my 9year old behind the trigger
 
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I'm thinking combustion pressure at bullet exit may explain your observations. If the N550 develops max pressure earlier and is dropping in pressure as the bullet exits, there would be less muzzle blast upsetting the bullet as it exits. Less kick in the butt = less dispersion?
 
I used N550 a while back looking for higher velocities with less pressure, as was recommended in an article I found. Possible the less pressure of the N550 benefited your results...
 
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N150 and N550 are going to have different power curves, so I'm wondering if one powder generates a short-sharp acceleration whilst another generates a slow-whoosh.

It may be that whilst both propellants ultimately generate the exact same MV, the two projectiles weren't in exactly the same window of harmonics.
 
I wouldn't ask questions and just shoot the N550.
I think I must have been one of those kids where "just because" was never a good enough answer, and I was like:

Mum.
Mum.
Mum.
Mum.
Mum.
Mummy.
Mummy.
Mummy.
Mummy.
Mummy.
Momma.
Momma.
Momma.
Momma.
Momma.

Ask your dad.

Dad.
Dad.
Dad...
 
I have a 6BR load using 80 gn Berger FB's that spans over 3.0 gns of 8208 XBR with identical POI's at 300. It will put 20 with a inch and a half vertical at 300 everytime as long as I stay in that 3 gn window. Sometimes it happens
 
I have a 6BR load using 80 gn Berger FB's that spans over 3.0 gns of 8208 XBR with identical POI's at 300. It will put 20 with a inch and a half vertical at 300 everytime as long as I stay in that 3 gn window. Sometimes it happens
Whats that window? I just picked up some of that exact power last night for my 6BR and was wanting to try it with Berger 80gr flat base bullets.
 
"These results seem to cast some doubt on the common assertion that group size is almost exclusively determined by seating depth."


"Clearly powder choice has a larger bearing on group size, than the "powder charge for MV and seating depth for group size" mantra would have you believe."

Have you guys ever experienced anything like this?
I've never heard that mantra. Perhaps, once you are in a good 'node' that seating depth can pull in a little horizontal and powder charge addition/subtraction will pull in any vertical. I have found what you found when I had a proper seating depth for a bullet/barrel and the powder burn characteristics were a match for that bullet and the case dimensions. I had about a .5" aggregate group over 3.6gr of powder and 30 shots all impacting near the same spot on target. It made it hard to figure out the charge 'node' at 100yds. Looks like you found a great combination for your cartridge.
 
Whats that window? I just picked up some of that exact power last night for my 6BR and was wanting to try it with Berger 80gr flat base bullets.
27.5 - 30.2 in a 26 inch 8 twist barrel .040 off lands. The 30.2 load bucked the wind the best @3050 FPS. This was shot @300 with a 10 - 15 mph tailwind. three sighters and then adjusted down 1 and left 1 for the last 17. I was holding a bit left becasue of wind switches and the group center was right on my aimpoint. The orange circle is a 3 inch stick on

edit went back and looked at the same load in a 29" barrel that I did a bit more chrono'ing on and between 28.0 and 30.0 all but one load had single digit SD's and ES below 20. Seems the sweet spot for that bullet is 3050 FPS for both rifles, it took .2 grains more in the 26 incher to get me there
 

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