What's next?

[boltfluter]

Dave is literally giving you the"keys" to the car! My methods are identical. Not that that really matters, but it has served me well for years. Until you get a rock solid bench setup you are just making noise. No offense intended. Good luck!
Paul

 

[GetReal]

I don't want you to take this the wrong way, as I'm trying to help you..

What if I told you that my 6.5cm brass isn't turned, I don't use a mandrel, bushing dies only and it shoots in the 1's consistently with 3 different loads using 2 different bullets, and no they aren't Berger or custom bullets.

I would beleive you. I had a 6.5 CM and I found a pretty good load quite easily without turning, mandrels, or bushing dies. I was using Berger 140 Hybrid Targets.

I tried the same with the 6 Dasher, and no joy.

I do beleive you are tryiung to help me. Thank you. I'l go back and re-read your posts.

 

[GetReal]

Take special note of how little correlation there is between MV ES and group size. Velocity isn’t the end all be all.

My understanding is consistent MV / SD's will affect trajectory and vertical impact over distance, like 600 / 1000 yards.

Beyond that, I agree re: MV. A great SD load can shoot crappy groups.

 

[GetReal]

I also do not turn my necks on my dasher and only you a full length bushing die and NO MANDRELS. I think the OPs main issue is the inability to shoot off a really stable platform.

I may not have a really stable platform, yet. I'm looking at front rests. I got a quality rear bag. I shoot much better groups with 6.5 CM / 224 Valkyrie (where I got good loads) and even 22RF BR - even off an Atlas bipod) . I haven't even played with seating depth yet on this Dasher and beleive once I do, my groups will tighten up.

At least I hope so.

 

[GetReal]

I have seen some pretty darn good groups shot off of a bipod and a rear bag, hang in there you’ll be fine. There are several ways to go about load development whether Shatterlee, Audette or dudette, it doesn’t really matter as long as you find a point of stability those rounds will impact the same spot, how small is up to your refinement.
Annealing weakens/softens brass, your set up may or may not respond to light neck tension mine likes plenty of bullet hold.

(Personally I think it should be a performance based decision )

Interesting. Others have told me unless I anneal, I'm a poser dork who isn't serious about shooting. No shortage of opinions, I guess. DOES make it difficult to find a path forward....

 

[GetReal]

Long Rang br guys shoot arguably the smallest groups in the world and if you ask who anneals and who does not you will get a variety of answers but all have got there through testing.

‘Neck tension changes’ I may wrong on this but anyway you might and I say might’ be able to see the difference on the chronograph but you will definitely see it on paper.

Agreed. During THIS testing, I had neck temsion changes of 6-10 in-lbs and saw no difference in my groups that I could tell.

 

[Dave M.]

I have seen some pretty darn good groups shot off of a bipod and a rear bag, hang in there you’ll be fine. There are several ways to go about load development whether Shatterlee, Audette or dudette, it doesn’t really matter as long as you find a point of stability those rounds will impact the same spot, how small is up to your refinement.
Annealing weakens/softens brass, your set up may or may not respond to light neck tension mine likes plenty of bullet hold.

(Personally I think it should be a performance based decision )

He isn’t using a bipod for the front. Just sand bags.

 

[Dave M.]

That’s ok too, maybe even better right ?
Dave you could probably shoot just as small over a bag as a bi pod.
We all started somewhere.

No way can I shoot as good over a sandbag versus a stand or bipod.
Dave

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Maybe we could get someone to help you if we knew where tri state appalachia is. Plenty here that can give your setup a once over and maybe show you some rest options so you dont have to buy twice. I think a lot of folks put emphasis on things that do not matter to them yet then laser focus there instead of getting better overall form. Examples of this are a chronograph, concentricity checkers, annealers, neck mandrels, uber fancy scales, etc. Until you can see on paper back to back multiple times that annealing is holding you back, stop doing it. Until you can prove neck tension is holding you back stop worrying about it. I can assure you without a proper tracking stock and rest setup, solid bench made of concrete, a sub 5oz trigger with a proven action/barrel, a proven scope, custom bullets and most importantly wind flags with the knowledge on how to read them- none of that stuff really matters in the end.

 

[GetReal]

Maybe we could get someone to help you if we knew where tri state appalachia is. Plenty here that can give your setup a once over and maybe show you some rest options so you dont have to buy twice. I think a lot of folks put emphasis on things that do not matter to them yet then laser focus there instead of getting better overall form. Examples of this are a chronograph, concentricity checkers, annealers, neck mandrels, uber fancy scales, etc. Until you can see on paper back to back multiple times that annealing is holding you back, stop doing it. Until you can prove neck tension is holding you back stop worrying about it. I can assure you without a proper tracking stock and rest setup, solid bench made of concrete, a sub 5oz trigger with a proven action/barrel, a proven scope, custom bullets and most importantly wind flags with the knowledge on how to read them- none of that stuff really matters in the end.

Good stuff. I agree. Maybe this might help....

First I haven't played with seating depth at all yet. ONLY trying to test powder charge amts get some good velocity #'s.

That and....I've gotten into the 0.1's 0.2s and 0.3 consistently in three other calibers. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing good looking groups lie in seating depth adjustment and finding the right powder charge.

Everything else you mentioned is very important. And I've used it all before to have other good success. This 6 Dasher is the longest I've ever taken to find a good load.

Others have been helping me via PM to address the other issues you raise. Beginning with a good quality front rest.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Good stuff. I agree. Maybe this might help....

First I haven't played with seating depth at all yet. ONLY trying to test powder charge amts get some good velocity #'s.

That and....I've gotten into the 0.1's 0.2s and 0.3 consistently in three other calibers. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing good looking groups lie in seating depth adjustment and finding the right powder charge.

Everything else you mentioned is very important. And I've used it all before to have other good success. This 6 Dasher is the longest I've ever taken to find a good load.

Others have been helping me via PM to address the other issues you raise. Beginning with a good quality front rest.

Watch the shadow talkers that cant let their suggestions get vetted in the open

 

[GetReal]

For clarity's sake, the individual helping me via IM has been participating and vetted thru this thread. I'm thankful for his offer and help.

 

[Dave M.]

For clarity's sake, the individual helping me via IM has been participating and vetted thru this thread. I'm thankful for his offer and help.

We will get you on the right track. You got the front rest coming and that will tighten things up. I wish you were closer to Michigan so we could hit the range together and build you a good solid repeatable load. In liu of that, we will have to work by phone and IM. Don’t over complicate the process. Set the mandrels aside and just use a bushing that is 2 or 3 thou smaller than your loaded round diameter. Neck tension is not going to turn a good solid load into garbage (within reason). Let’s talk more after you get the rest and get used to it. Then I can help you set up a test to select the correct charge weight in less than 50 rounds (and that includes duplicating the first test). Then we will move on to seating depth. Then, we can discuss more advanced reloading techniques. I want to help you, because SO MANY great people on this site have went out of their way to help me.
Dave

 

[Bc'z]

We will get you on the right track. You got the front rest coming and that will tighten things up. I wish you were closer to Michigan so we could hit the range together and build you a good solid repeatable load. In liu of that, we will have to work by phone and IM. Don’t over complicate the process. Set the mandrels aside and just use a bushing that is 2 or 3 thou smaller than your loaded round diameter. Neck tension is not going to turn a good solid load into garbage (within reason). Let’s talk more after you get the rest and get used to it. Then I can help you set up a test to select the correct charge weight in less than 50 rounds (and that includes duplicating the first test). Then we will move on to seating depth. Then, we can discuss more advanced reloading techniques. I want to help you, because SO MANY great people on this site have went out of their way to help me.
Dave

Dave, your awesome!

 

[GetReal]

@Dave M. thanx!

 

[Dave M.]

Dave, your awesome!

Thanks Brett. Just trying to give back a bit. With component pricing, Covid, etc, it’s a bold time for any new shooter to enter the sport. I hope I can help him like others helped me get up to speed.