Black walnut tree

[joshb]

Josh, those rifles are beautiful.

Thanks. It’s a niche market.

 

[Brians356]

@joshb, what I meant was for commercial production. Every hardwood on the planet has probably been used by some gunmaker. Untold millions of American rifles have been sold with English, Turkish, or French walnut stocks. How many with American black walnut?
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[hogpatrol]

A few more...
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Josh, Any of them from Hearne's? I have a blank Brian gave me. I need to do something with it.

 

[joshb]

Josh, Any of them from Hearne's? I have a blank Brian gave me. I need to do something with it.

Nope. I can’t justify buying when I have a pile in my shop. Mine won’t win any awards but it’s special to me. My father and I cut the trees down and had them milled, 40-50 years ago. It was our mutual hobby.
I’ll look at your blank. Maybe I could turn it into something you could use.

 

[msinc]

@joshb, what I meant was for commercial production. Every hardwood on the planet has probably been used by some gunmaker. Untold millions of American rifles have been sold with English, Turkish, or French walnut stocks. How many with American black walnut?
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Well, just about every pre-64 Winchester, shotgun and rifle was black walnut. Every Marlin rifle ever made except the economy ones. All BDL and many ADL 700's, 760's and 742's, 1100's and 870 Wingmasters....that's a hell of a lot of guns. The American gun industry uses a lot of black walnut. Two world wars have all but decimated the worlds supply of "English" {Turkish, French, Circassian same thing, juglans regia} so I don't know about untold millions. Prior to WWI just about every gun made used English walnut. Browning, when they went to Japan used a lot of Claro from California.

 

[joshb]

@joshb, what I meant was for commercial production. Every hardwood on the planet has probably been used by some gunmaker. Untold millions of American rifles have been sold with English, Turkish, or French walnut stocks. How many with American black walnut?
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Ever heard of Parker shotguns? My memory says they used American Walnut.
I also think Savage, Ruger, Winchester and Remington used American Walnut for their stocks, not English.

 

[Twicepop]

Maple is a better wood for gunstocks than Walnut.

 

[msinc]

Ever heard of Parker shotguns? My memory says they used American Walnut.
I also think Savage, Ruger, Winchester and Remington used American Walnut for their stocks, not English.

Parker, as well as the other American double gun makers used black walnut for some of their lower graded shotguns, but many were actually English. It depends a lot on the year too...prior to around 1915 or so even some of the lower grades used English. By the late 20's though you had to get up in the grades pretty good to see English. My DHE Parker {1927} is very nicely figured English, but my GHE {also 1927} is black walnut. L.C. Smith probably used the most black walnut of the old doubles. You had to get up there pretty good in the grade to see English on an L.C. Smith.
Lefever Arms {and D.M. Lefever, 1907} used all English up until 1917 when they were done.

 

[Brians356]

Ever heard of Parker shotguns? My memory says they used American Walnut.
I also think Savage, Ruger, Winchester and Remington used American Walnut for their stocks, not English.

Fair enough. But is all "American walnut" "black walnut"? Honest question.

PS there's tons of walnut in America, but a lot of it is non-native English walnut. If a maker says "American walnut stock" that could actually be the English variety, just not imported.
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[jdh47]

For really nice gunstocks I think the French, English, Circassian, whatever you want to call the thin shelled walnut is the best. It's decent to work with. Black walnut, hard shelled walnut, is usually less figured unless you get a good stick. It's pores are larger so won't hold fine checkering as good as the Regal variety. Monty Kennedy gives a good description of most varieties of gunstock woods in his book "Checkering and Carving of Gunstocks".
You can buy pretty decent wood from a number of places but you generally get what you can afford in the way of excellent wood.
Boise De Arc is a PITA to do anything with. It's sorta yellow and is hard. I think back in the 40's my brother in law machined a sleeve bearing for his dad's sawmill from Boise De Arc and it lasted pretty well. At least that's the story I got. I believe it.

 

[Intheshop]

Once you step up in machine categories,none of it is "that" big of an issue. Some of the "exotics" can really test your mettle but..... ehhh,deal with it. We used to run right much Ossage and is a middle of the rd on the ha$$le factor.

Walnut,and oak are what eventually led towards our,GREATLY stepping up dust management. From decades of huffing that chit,have gotten to where even a wiff of either species bothers me. Thank goodness for sheet metal equipment......forming,rolling,Tig machines,and big honkin impellors!!!! We can run 1000ft of,pick a species,across most of the machines here and if there's a tea cup of unaccountable chips..... well,just sayin,it don't happen.

 

[Intheshop]

Maple vs Walnut;

One has been used SIGNIFICANTLY in bow production for 100 or so years. The other,rarely.... like,almost never.

I'm too old to worry with chemistry and XY scales but think about it. Maple is the darling of resonance,strength,straight tight grain. Walnut is "dead" by comparison. Take a billet of each,same size..... say a 2X3X 18" and smack it with a wrench or something. Feel it and ask yourself if,or how that effects what you're trying to accomplish with a rifle stock. The maple will "ring" much more than walnut. It shows up even more as the piece gets "whittled".

Take a pce the size of a typical paint stir stick and stick one end in a vise and,twang it.

Just sayin,now you're getting somewhere in managing/understanding recoil tuning. And will leave it there,with a special note of the "action woods"(maple,Russian birch laminates)..... these work,"because" of the epoxy,not in spite of them.

 

[msinc]

Fair enough. But is all "American walnut" "black walnut"? Honest question.

PS there's tons of walnut in America, but a lot of it is non-native English walnut. If a maker says "American walnut stock" that could actually be the English variety, just not imported.
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Yes sir, this is absolutely true. The one thing I would say to this is that since English {juglans regia} really is superior wood, especially for a gunstock, it would seem like any gunmaker would brag that up no matter if it was grown on American soil. I know for certain I would. I also wouldn't call it anything else when it came time to sell it either.

 

[Brians356]

Since the common name "Osage orange" seems allergenic here, we might as well use the proper french: bois d'arc
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[butchlambert]

Since the common name Osage orange seems allergenic here, we might as well use the proper french: bois d'arc
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Always called it boat ark. I do have a boat ark bow made by an old Indian in Blossom, Texas.

 

[okie]

Always called it boat ark. I do have a boat ark bow made by an old Indian in Blossom, Texas.

I thought it was BODARK??? lol

 

[joshb]

Since the common name Osage orange seems allergenic here, we might as well use the proper french: bois d'arc
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Well he!! Now I know what you’re talking about!!!!
French!?!? Was it “Never fired, dropped once??
I have to admit some ignorance here. When we found a Walnut tree in the path of our clearing, we never identified what kind of Walnut it was. We just logged it up and sent it to the mill. We were clearing for roads and house sites. We had a deadline and a lot of work to do!

 

[joshb]

Parker, as well as the other American double gun makers used black walnut for some of their lower graded shotguns, but many were actually English. It depends a lot on the year too...prior to around 1915 or so even some of the lower grades used English. By the late 20's though you had to get up in the grades pretty good to see English. My DHE Parker {1927} is very nicely figured English, but my GHE {also 1927} is black walnut. L.C. Smith probably used the most black walnut of the old doubles. You had to get up there pretty good in the grade to see English on an L.C. Smith.
Lefever Arms {and D.M. Lefever, 1907} used all English up until 1917 when they were done.

Dang! Now I have to go digging! I know I have an LC Smith Ideal grade but can’t remember if it’s a 16 or 12 gauge. I have my Dad’s last Parker, but can’t remember what it is. I know it’s a 12 gauge with longer than normal barrels and full/full. It was his Turkey gun.

 

[divingin]

Not worth it. To fell, buck, skid, haul, mill, and shape is way too big of a pain for most people. Unless it was special, like your grandpa planted it for you to use as a rifle stock. Wood may or may not be all that pretty.

You forgot "dry". Takes a while to get lumber dry enough to work on without the risk of warping/cracking./checking.

 

[butchlambert]

You forgot "dry". Takes a while to get lumber dry enough to work on without the risk of warping/cracking./checking.

Dried and "cured". 2 different things.