Neck sizing vs full length
- Thread starter vbirddogs
- Start date
Yup pure bull, nobody full length sizes in F Class
See you at the nationals, I will bring an extra hammer all the top shooters carry one or two.Most common is FL sizing . Many folks still use neck sizing as part of their routine, they are just not as vocal as the guys trying to look cool denouncing Neck Sizing . A majority of those guys also have no experience with a neck sizer , they just want to fit in.
Funny guy, I was talking about the hammer part . Total BS ! Hammer in,hammer out ? Sweet story bro !Yup pure bull, nobody full length sizes in F Class
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
POODLE FIGHT!!! POODLE FIGHT!!!!!
That’s funny, because I never have to do that because I use the same casings for the same rifle.
See how the Top Shooters in F-Class do it.
First, someone needs to explain WHY? Why would you give up concentricity in the chamber to brass fit?
Second, has anyone explained to everyone else that the top shooters who "full length" size are doing so with custom dies? And, newer presses that have a better 'float' fit for the brass in the shellholder?
Third, neck sizing works just fine when you're not ramping the loads up past the designed maximum operating pressure of a powder.
Fourth, Mac McMillan neck sized all his match loads. Only one guy in history has ever beaten him.
PRS, yeah I can see FL sizing. Top bench? F-Class? I don't see why. Unless you run your loads as hot as you can and HAVE to FL size so as not to beat the bolt open and closed with a hammer. And, gall your lug faces. But, those are just commodities. Barrels...somebody figured out you burn more money in bullets and powder so just throw a $700-$1000 barrel in there too. Cost of playing the fast game, right?
Hate is a pretty strong word, I would go with dislike . Some peopkle just don't like folks that love to draw attention with a sarcastic "know it all" approach .
Well said ,you bring up some valid points and questions .
No flaming on the first part.
I would not say concentricity is down the list. Bullet runout, bullet alignment in the case, FWIW, even full length sizers are HUGE on concentricity. My question is then, why go all through all the steps to get concentricity when the finished product is off in the chamber? Concentricity IS one of the top two concerns when reloading for competition.
That leads us to the second point about custom dies. Some of the top shooters dies aren't really FL sizing dies. They are custom made for MINIMAL separation of the case to the chamber. So, they are barely sizing just a smidge more than what a neck sizer would take down. If that. Often the same reamer is used for the die as the chamber it's just pushed in .002" short. That leaves the shoulder getting bumped back .002". And, since there is very little taper on the 6-Dasher and 6-BRA, there is very little sizing on the case walls.
I also understand that brass has an elasticity that steel does not. It also comes back to original shape and size better. Thus why cases can be extracted more easily. It's also why custom dies have to size them less.If you run brass too hot, no matter what way you size, you're going to have sticky bolt lift. Or, blown primers. I watch guys all the time chasin' the unicorn of hotter and hotter loads. Just find an accurate node that is below pressure problems and you will not have hard to move brass.
After reloading some brass as much as 20 rounds reloaded on it I've not had to FL size. I'm not shooting as fast and may have to call wind that tiny bit better, but I consider that knowing your ballistics. Loading hot eats barrels and destroys brass which leads to inconsistency.
I doubt if any of the guys Speedy asked how they size would take a brand new RCBS, Redding, Lee or Lyman 'off-the-shelf' die if he handed it to them so they could use that for their next match. Those are made for the masses. Again, customs are made to fit with very little brass movement.
Now for the flame. You need to find out who Mac McMillan was. Read up, there is a lot of good information. The guy that beat him, Stinnet, as I understand uses a custom die to FL size.
Best Group Ever: Michael Stinnett’s .0077″ Five-Shot Group « Daily Bulletin
All target shooters strive for perfect shot placement. Well one man has come closer to perfection than any other shooter who ever lived. You are looking at Michael Stinnett's .
Inside Look at World Record .0077″ Group — The Gun and Ammo « Daily Bulletin
We reported two weeks ago that Texas shooter Mike Stinnett nailed a .0077 group in competition -- the smallest 5-shot group ever shot at 100 yards. This has now been officially recognized as a new NBRSA record, <a href=http://bulletin.accurateshooter.
There is a lot more to this than just FL sizing.
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Down at the bottom of those articles are write-ups on Mac McMillan.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
First of all, we need to qualify some things. What do we mean by accuracy? Do we mean one small group, or average accuracy? Short range benchrest is NOT won by the smallest group, but by the smallest average of groups, and those averages are getting smaller. They are certainly smaller than they were when McMillan shot his long standing record. If we want to continue that trend, we need to study the equipment, reloading practices and shooting methods of the most recent record holders, and winners of top matches. Fortunately we can do this at a distance using YouTube. One of the very top shooters, who recently won the Super Shoot, and who has more Hall of Fame points than any other, is Tony Boyer. According to recent accounts I believe that he generally shoots over 30 grains of 133, a hot load. In order to do this, he must FL Resize. At the moment, I can't think of any top shooter that does not FL size. As others have mentioned, this has nothing to do with the extreme sizing that using a standard die on brass from a factory chamber entails. On the other hand, if you can meet your individual goals with loads that are of such a low pressure that neck sized cases work for you, that is fine, but we need to qualify what kind of shooting and what sort of results we are talking about, so as not to make apples and oranges comparisons. It is kind of like competition vs. economy vehicle operation. On the racing side of shooting, I have put up this video several times as an excellent example of current practice.
You can see that there is no sign of binding when he cycles the action.
If this sort of thing is not what you are trying to accomplish, then another method may suffice, but I think that this forum tends to favor the best possible results, over good enough.
You can see that there is no sign of binding when he cycles the action.
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