Lee precision - some issues...
- Thread starter Tim N
- Start date
Their website is pretty clear about refunds - guaranteed satisfaction or your money back. 30 days might be a bit of an issue.
what that usually means is the older guys in the company the owner designers etc have retired and the younger more "educated" but dumber guys take over. happened in tons of companies
I have found that the Lee factory crimp die is the best single die for accuracy that I ever had. I do not shoot in benchrest or any competition although I smoked guys at the 300 yd range.
I started using the crimp die for the M1A and noticed it made the ammo more accurate.so I got them for bolt rifles and was stunned with the accuracy. I loaded for my friends rifles with the same results. I figure the crimp releases the bullet at the same time as opposed to the stupid neck tension where no necks will give the same release
I started using the crimp die for the M1A and noticed it made the ammo more accurate.so I got them for bolt rifles and was stunned with the accuracy. I loaded for my friends rifles with the same results. I figure the crimp releases the bullet at the same time as opposed to the stupid neck tension where no necks will give the same release
Nick Caprinolo
Gold $$ Contributor
I have used a variety of reloading equipment over the years. While I have never used anything Lee makes, as with their warranty being so limited, I have to assume they do not have faith in their products, to withstand normal use over a long period of time.
I stick to Wilson and RCBS mostly but do have some Hornady. All three have a lifetime warranty and I have never had a moments problem, getting replacement parts, at no cost. They never ask if I am the original purchaser, nor do the want me to send them the old part. Call them, tell them you problem and in several days you have the new part in your mail box.
My son uses Lee, for all his reloading, even though I tried to talk him out of it. When he had a part go bad, first thing they asked, is when did you buy it and do you have a receipt. Then they require, you send the old part back before they will send you a new one. So you are now shut down, for several weeks, while waiting for the item to arrive, in your mail box.
I see that many use the Lee crimp dye and swear by it. I am trying to understand why that is better than a Wilson bushing die which gives me uniform seating and concentricity. If there is an advantage to the Lee die, I hope someone will enlighten me. I use a hydraulic arbor press with gauge that tells me every round is within my specifications. What can Lee do to make things any better?
I stick to Wilson and RCBS mostly but do have some Hornady. All three have a lifetime warranty and I have never had a moments problem, getting replacement parts, at no cost. They never ask if I am the original purchaser, nor do the want me to send them the old part. Call them, tell them you problem and in several days you have the new part in your mail box.
My son uses Lee, for all his reloading, even though I tried to talk him out of it. When he had a part go bad, first thing they asked, is when did you buy it and do you have a receipt. Then they require, you send the old part back before they will send you a new one. So you are now shut down, for several weeks, while waiting for the item to arrive, in your mail box.
I see that many use the Lee crimp dye and swear by it. I am trying to understand why that is better than a Wilson bushing die which gives me uniform seating and concentricity. If there is an advantage to the Lee die, I hope someone will enlighten me. I use a hydraulic arbor press with gauge that tells me every round is within my specifications. What can Lee do to make things any better?
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I like Lee Collet dies.
Recently I wanted a way to neck size some cases prior to ordering a custom bushing FL die for a new caliber, the 6BRA. Remembering that those dies work for the AI versions of their designated cartridges and that I had been told that the 6PPC die works for the 6BR, I bought one. It worked just as I hoped it would. The cases had been expanded, turned and fire formed to AI. I needed a way to neck size several several times to make the cases I needed to send off with my die order, it worked perfectly.
Whether is was by design or because of differences between the PPC and BR or the 2019 design change, this die comes just short of sizing the very end of my case necks. This posed absolutely no problem chambering rounds in my .268 neck chamber, using brass turned to .0115. It did make for very nice bullet seating.
Reading this thread, I think that there was a complaint without determining that the difference actually was causing a problem, and some advice based on total lack of experience.
IMO for cases that are not going to be neck turned, doing a two step sizing process, starting with the collet die, and finishing with a body die, gives the best possible concentricity and uniformity of bullet seating force.
I have used these dies for years for factory chambers.
A friend who built a 6BRA just before I had my barrel chambered continues to use his and plans on using his custom FL bushing die, sans bushing, as a body die, when he needs it. So far his accuracy is excellent by any standard.
Recently I wanted a way to neck size some cases prior to ordering a custom bushing FL die for a new caliber, the 6BRA. Remembering that those dies work for the AI versions of their designated cartridges and that I had been told that the 6PPC die works for the 6BR, I bought one. It worked just as I hoped it would. The cases had been expanded, turned and fire formed to AI. I needed a way to neck size several several times to make the cases I needed to send off with my die order, it worked perfectly.
Whether is was by design or because of differences between the PPC and BR or the 2019 design change, this die comes just short of sizing the very end of my case necks. This posed absolutely no problem chambering rounds in my .268 neck chamber, using brass turned to .0115. It did make for very nice bullet seating.
Reading this thread, I think that there was a complaint without determining that the difference actually was causing a problem, and some advice based on total lack of experience.
IMO for cases that are not going to be neck turned, doing a two step sizing process, starting with the collet die, and finishing with a body die, gives the best possible concentricity and uniformity of bullet seating force.
I have used these dies for years for factory chambers.
A friend who built a 6BRA just before I had my barrel chambered continues to use his and plans on using his custom FL bushing die, sans bushing, as a body die, when he needs it. So far his accuracy is excellent by any standard.
Years ago I tried a set of Lee rifle dies. The workmanship looked like they came out of a Communist Upper Slobovian sweat shop. The resultant loaded rounds never shot well. Dies went in the trash and that was my only experience with Lee products.
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
-Aljackson1
Silver $$ Contributor
I use Lee shell holder boxes, for my RCBS and Redding shell holders, helped build the original mold. Have looked at their tools and the fit and finish always seemed lacking to me. Live about 50 miles from the factory you would think they would own the market around here, not so. Occasionally I shoot with a UW Sheboygan professor, and a citizen of the PRC. This fellow knows all and you don't have to ask him. The professor is a Lee apologist, can't shoot worth a damn and refuses to be involved in our informal competitions. But he will willingly debate China's relationship with America. Bottom line Lee equipment probably works OK and fills a need for the budget mined or beginner hand loader. Sadly this look like it came from China but is made buy my fellow Wisconsinites. Gladly they don't make barrels.
Since the conversion seems to be centered around the Lee Collet Die; note, not the same as the Lee Factory Crimp. There seems to be some confusion between the two in a couple of posts here and I commonly confuse the two as well.
Anyway, I got a LCD in 222 Remington. It does not even touch the case neck. If I leave the mandrel in the die it does not reduce the neck diameter at all. As an experiment I took the mandrel out and the die will squash case necks down by .010 inch. After studying the problem I'm pretty sure what's happening is the mandrel is bottoming out in the case and also at the top hitting the threaded plug that holds the whole works together. The mandrel should float, but it appears to be too long. I also have a LCD in 223 Rem. and the mandrel in it is identical to the one in the 222 die. I wonder if they put the wrong mandrel in the 222 die.
Years back I tried to reduce the diameter of a 22 Hornet LCD by spinning it in the lathe and sanding. It was softer than I expected and I reduced the diameter way too much in no time. I called Lee and explained this and they sent me a new mandrel no charge. I will call one day about the 222 die when I get the time to do so. Or Email them.
Something I have read a number of times is that users of the LCD say the die has the ability to make case neck thickness uniform. People seem to be saying they can take a case with say 2 or 3 thou of neck thickness variation, run it in the LCD and find the thickness variation has been reduced. I personally find it hard to believe the die has the ability to cause brass to flow circumferencially around the neck of the cartridge, which is what would have to happen. I have checked this myself, being skeptical yet seeing guys make the claim. I have taken cases with different neck thickness variations, from a little to a lot, leaned on the press handle with all my body weight and have ever found the thickness variation reduced or changed one bit. So what's up with that?
Anyway, I got a LCD in 222 Remington. It does not even touch the case neck. If I leave the mandrel in the die it does not reduce the neck diameter at all. As an experiment I took the mandrel out and the die will squash case necks down by .010 inch. After studying the problem I'm pretty sure what's happening is the mandrel is bottoming out in the case and also at the top hitting the threaded plug that holds the whole works together. The mandrel should float, but it appears to be too long. I also have a LCD in 223 Rem. and the mandrel in it is identical to the one in the 222 die. I wonder if they put the wrong mandrel in the 222 die.
Years back I tried to reduce the diameter of a 22 Hornet LCD by spinning it in the lathe and sanding. It was softer than I expected and I reduced the diameter way too much in no time. I called Lee and explained this and they sent me a new mandrel no charge. I will call one day about the 222 die when I get the time to do so. Or Email them.
Something I have read a number of times is that users of the LCD say the die has the ability to make case neck thickness uniform. People seem to be saying they can take a case with say 2 or 3 thou of neck thickness variation, run it in the LCD and find the thickness variation has been reduced. I personally find it hard to believe the die has the ability to cause brass to flow circumferencially around the neck of the cartridge, which is what would have to happen. I have checked this myself, being skeptical yet seeing guys make the claim. I have taken cases with different neck thickness variations, from a little to a lot, leaned on the press handle with all my body weight and have ever found the thickness variation reduced or changed one bit. So what's up with that?
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Thanks Tim for the contact. 280 bucks is a chunk, I can see why you want a refund rather than a credit voucher.
On the neck thickness I was talking high "spots" less than a half thousandth not a wide band of the thicker stuff on soft necks not work hardened.
Yes I kinda got that but it did remind me of other times, on some other forums as well as here on the AS forums (if I remember correctly) I've read the claim I mentioned.
And, the problem I mentioned in my post about the 222 die...I looked and the part number is the same for both 222 and 223 replacement mandrels. Hmm.
I understand what their standard terms are now, but I have an email advising me to continue using the original dies till the new ones arrive and upon returning the old dies, my money will be REFUNDED.
Seemed fairly clear that’s what was going to happen.
centershot
Silver $$ Contributor
In this day and age, every other gun related company has always made the customer happy. Screwing with this is a road to disaster. Seems as though you received a proper settlement. Good luck.
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Dusty Stevens
Shiner
wouldnt a 223 and a 222 use the same mandrel since theyre the same caliber?
Same diameter, yes but since the 222 case is shorter than the 223 in OAL but also in the shoulder location. It seems to me the case would have to be allowed to move up into the die more, all other things being equal and it seems the length of the mandrel is what's stopping the case. When I use the 223 die I can see the skirt of the collet, visible below the die body, move up a substantial amount and can feel the collet compress. It feels "springy" I'd say. The 222 die, the collet skirt doesn't move up at all and the ram comes to a hard stop. No "springy."
I don't know. Tomorrow I'll study it some more. Maybe the collet itself is the problem. The body is the same on all of these things as far as I can tell. I could be thinking backwards about it, but something isn't right that's for sure.
edit; before someone mentions it, no the collet is not stuck
I don't know. Tomorrow I'll study it some more. Maybe the collet itself is the problem. The body is the same on all of these things as far as I can tell. I could be thinking backwards about it, but something isn't right that's for sure.
edit; before someone mentions it, no the collet is not stuck
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Bill Norris
Back in the Day
Back in 1995 when I first got into reloading I started with a small Lee kit and a few of their dies. As I learned more about dies and brass I tried Redding dies to see if there was a difference for me. The difference became very clear in that I had missed the wagon with the Lee dies. I sold and/or gave away all of them. Never looked back and still using Redding. However, after reading a few good things about Lee collet dies here I decided to try ONE and see if I could find any improvement in my hand loads regarding neck tension. Needless to say, it was not there for me. Guess I will stick with the Redding F/L bushing dies.
The 222 die, the collet skirt doesn't move up at all and the ram comes to a hard stop. No "springy."
I don't know. Tomorrow I'll study it some more. Maybe the collet itself is the problem. The body is the same on all of these things as far as I can tell. I could be thinking backwards about it, but something isn't right that's for sure.
edit; before someone mentions it, no the collet is not stuck
One of my originals had the same symptoms early on. I took
it apart with some effort. The internals were machined too
tight to easily let the collet to open back up. I honed the body
just a bit, and put a very light coat moly on the cone. Been
banging away without a hitch ever since. I might mention that
in the instructions, it says to turn the die in (after contact)
2 full turns if not using their press. I suppose it was meant to
compensate for cam over. I stayed at 1.5 turns and all has been
good.
On the .223 and .222 Issue. I have run into brass from IMI 5.56
NATO, being extra thick length wise, making the case seem even
shorter. It feels like your squeezing down on the mandrel when in
fact your hitting the bottom of the case.
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try taking the die apart and using some fine emery cloth on the collet... even between the fingers of it... then as fuj said apply a light film of lube on the inside of the cone... it will make a difference.. another thing that you dont want to do is run the ram up pushing the collet up in the die without a case in it... it can cause the collet to stick up inside the die.... i use several different types of dies to set neck tension... forster , whidden , redding and if lee made the collet die for all the different carts i load for i would use the lcd in all of them along with a redding body die... my .02 cents worth....
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