RL16 with Heavy Bullets in 223

[APGE]

I was using quickload to find a starting point for 88gr ELD from my 32" 223 using 8208. This proved to be a very good powder choice, but curiously, using the "barrel time from entry load" feature it showed RL16 to be a viable choice.

At a 103% load fill, velocity is some 60fps faster than my 4895 load, with 7k psi less pressure and smack bang on an OBT node. I loaded some dummy rounds and was able to load the predicted charged, plus another 0.5gr without no issues consistently seating a projectile.

Has anyone ever tried RL16 with heavy bullets in the 223? Im yet to fire any rounds to see how it goes.

My chamber has an enormous amount of freebore, which I'm sure helps getting such a large charge of bulky powder in.

Lower pressure, slower powder and more velocity - it sounds like a win if Quickload is telling the truth.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

The QL model for RL16 has been a bit optimistic in relation to the speed of the powder in my 284 chambering. I suspect 5hat you will find lower than expected velocities.

That said, one experiment is worth more than a thousand opinions.

Let us know what you find.

 

[Evan]

I'm suspicious of that. I couldn't get enough RL-16 in a 22BR to get good speed, and that's a bit bigger than the 223. With how bulky it is, I don't think it will happen. Give it a try and report back! RL-17 might work - it packs better.

 

[APGE]

I'm suspicious of that. I couldn't get enough RL-16 in a 22BR to get good speed, and that's a bit bigger than the 223. With how bulky it is, I don't think it will happen. Give it a try and report back! RL-17 might work - it packs better.

I have a healthy degree of scepticism myself. I won't be able to try this for another week, but in the meantime, here's the quickload data. As noted, I have a ridiculous amount of freebore. I hope this works - the numbers look very nice indeed.

My past experience with RL17 was enough for me to decide not to use it in a competition gun ever again.

 

[std7mag]

RL16 is very bulky!
I had issues with that in my 7mm-08AI.
I might try it, depending on your COAL.
If you can seat the bullet out far enough, it might be ok. 103% fill in the 223, your gonna be crunching some kernels.

Let us know what you experience.

If it is too much case fill, you may want to try PP2000MR.

 

[Laurie]

RL16 is very bulky!
I had issues with that in my 7mm-08AI.

I've had even more so in the 'straight' 7mm-08 despite loading for a very long-freebore set-up.

If looking to try 'H4350 substitutes' in 223, there are the two Viht N500s in that category, old and new. N550 was a Canadian TR and F/TR shooter favourite at least in the early days of 223 with bullets over 80gn. I never quite managed to get the necessary consistency and group sizes out of it with Berger 90s even though MVs were excellent, so gave it up quite quickly. The new N555 may be a possibility. It appears to be quite a bit slower burning than N550, very similar maximum charges to H4350. It is however, considerably denser than Re16 as I found out last week when I loaded up my first trial loads in the pair in the 7-08.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Velocity isn't necessarily everything, especially in a .223 Rem with 90 VLDs or 88 ELDMs. Both those bullets are known to have jacket failure issues when pushed hard (i.e. 2850 fps, 30" barrel, H4895). I'd expect generating an additional 60 fps velocity would substantially increase the odds of that happening. And if you're fortunate enough to have the jacket failure issue completely licked (there are some ways to do that), then the ugly spectre of poor brass life might also raise its head at 2900+ fps velocity. The bottom line is that obtaining velocities for ~90 gr bullets from a 30"+ barrel in the 2900+ fps range from the small .223 Rem case is asking a LOT. As such, doing so can sometimes create more problems than it is worth. Nonetheless, the only way to know for sure is to test it yourself, in your specific setup. Try it and see if you can get it to work is about the only suggestion I can make.

 

[APGE]

Velocity isn't necessarily everything, especially in a .223 Rem with 90 VLDs or 88 ELDMs. Both those bullets are known to have jacket failure issues when pushed hard (i.e. 2850 fps, 30" barrel, H4895). I'd expect generating an additional 60 fps velocity would substantially increase the odds of that happening. And if you're fortunate enough to have the jacket failure issue completely licked (there are some ways to do that), then the ugly spectre of poor brass life might also raise its head at 2900+ fps velocity. The bottom line is that obtaining velocities for ~90 gr bullets from a 30"+ barrel in the 2900+ fps range from the small .223 Rem case is asking a LOT. As such, doing so can sometimes create more problems than it is worth. Nonetheless, the only way to know for sure is to test it yourself, in your specific setup. Try it and see if you can get it to work is about the only suggestion I can make.

I've been happy to find that 88 ELMs are holding together in my 219/224 barrel. I have lost two (both on a freshly cleaned barrel with only 30ish round count at the time), but after revisiting the projectile, another 400 rounds have been down the tube without incident.

The primary benefit that I see in this is that (if it works) is not so much velocity, but that the pressure is considerably less than an equivalent 4895 load. Spending time prepping brass only to discard them after 3 firings has to be the worst part of running a hot 223 in FTR!

I'll report on how it goes in a week or so.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I've been happy to find that 88 ELMs are holding together in my 219/224 barrel. I have lost two (both on a freshly cleaned barrel with only 30ish round count at the time), but after revisiting the projectile, another 400 rounds have been down the tube without incident.

The primary benefit that I see in this is that (if it works) is not so much velocity, but that the pressure is considerably less than an equivalent 4895 load. Spending time prepping brass only to discard them after 3 firings has to be the worst part of running a hot 223 in FTR!

I'll report on how it goes in a week or so.

Less pressure would be a definite benefit. Good luck with it!

 

[std7mag]

Yes, please keep us updated.

I can't shoot that heavy of a bullet (1:9), but am curious anyways.

 

[Nrdon]

@APGE, did you get to shoot that load? Eager to hear how it went.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Here is what I came up with. 24 grains of Reloder 16, 90 grain Berger VLD w/.005 jump, CCI 450 primer, two 3 shot groups averaged 2450 fps (Lab Radar) from 27" Hart heavy varmint contour-7 twist barrel. The same load with 25 grains of Reloder 16 averaged 2535 fps. 100 yard 3 shot groups with wicked mirage of .151 & .466 for the faster load. 24 grain groups slightly larger. I did not try 26 grains for fear of seriously compressing the powder charge. This chamber was specifically throated for the 90 grain Bergers to maximize powder charge without sacrificing case neck grip. (boat tail at shoulder/neck junction). Sorry forgot to mention this is a .223 AI.

 

[APGE]

@APGE, did you get to shoot that load? Eager to hear how it went.

I haven't shot the loads yet, but they are ready to go. I can confirm that I can get over 26 grains of RL16 into a plain 223 case and still seat a 90 or 85.5 without crunching powder.

I'll report back as soon as I've shot them

 

[APGE]

Quickload was optimistic. 26.2 of RL16 netted me 2790fps. It was very accurate at that velocity, but didn't offer anything 4895 isn't already doing.