Rimfire Tuners

[Rob01]

When you get to the highest level of 22lr benchrest the accuracy requirement gets pretty intense. What some would call super accurate becomes plinker level.

Didn’t realize all we can talk about is the highest level of BR Comps. Guess no other accuracy matters. LOL

 

[Rob01]

Hell y’all wanna talk about grocery shopping while we’re at it..

Nah just went so not needing anything just now.

 

[linebaugh]

You guys make me feel like a flat earther. LOL

I also did not intend to make you feel bad. I don't like seing misinformation posted... and I have done my share of misrepresenting. This site is a great resource and I like to see the truth represented as best we are able.

Now back to tuners.

 

[Rob01]

Line you should get a ATS and give it some testing and see if the theories hold true.

Also not really feeling bad. Takes a lot more than this thread. LOL

 

[linebaugh]

I'm up to my chin in rimfire right now. I have debated the tuner question a hundred times and know there could be worth to the concept. I shoot NRL/PRS type events so I just don't know if it's a fit for how I shoot.
My practical accuracy is just over an inch with multiple, multiple 10 shot groups and probably closer to .8 - .9 on average with multiple 5 shot groups. My groups seem round if not more horizintal than anything. I have read all I can find on the net about tuners and like reading any new threads on them here as well but think I better not open another can of worms at this time.

 

[Rob01]

I am a NRL/PRS shooter also as BR bores me. My rifle without the tuner is accurate but more so with it. I want to try it on my Rimfire but it’s more than accurate enough for me now.

 

[VLNBYR]

I guess if you make the target big enough then you can get away with zero accuracy. Make the target small enough and you need 100% accuracy. Every shooter is somewhere in this spectrum, depends on what they consider "good enough".

 

[RAVAGE88]

While it's 100% accurate that turning down a barrel relieves stress, thereby, opening the bore, it doesn't necessarily mean the bore stays that way when the turned feature is threaded. This is due to tool pressure applied to barrel material that's typically in the 28-32 Rc range. If you slug a barrel prior to turning the muzzle feature, then slug again after cutting the threads, you'll notice the muzzle likely tightened a bit. It's especially noticeable if you added a thread relief groove at the shoulder using a grooving tool.

So, just turning doesn't always mean the bore stays the way it is after the material is removed. If there are follow-on processes, the bore changed again.

MB

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm not going to take a side on the bore growing but will add an important consideration to it.
The bore swells every time you pull the trigger. It grows most at max psi and less as pressure drops. So, isn't there a natural choke..within reason?

I've seen bore expansion, on the extreme end, ruin accuracy. But that was where someone put a 1/2-28 brake on a 338 rum.
It was visibly expanded beyond its yield point. You could see and feel the bulge.

That said, I can't honestly say that I've ever seen accuracy degrade by machining on the muzzle, where a small amount of common sense was applied.

 

[linekin]

Are you talking specifically about Rimfire specifically? I can say that’s total BS for centerfire rifles but my Vudoo barrel is threaded and it’s super accurate. I don’t use a suppressor but it came that way. I don’t see how a Rimfire would open up at the muzzle being threaded. There is a lot of barrel material there and not a lot of pressure. I think it’s more something that has been passed down as fact over the years but doesn’t hold in reality.

Yes I was talking solely on rimfires. Even more specifically,custom taper lapped barrels. I was merely relaying what had been expressed to me.
I questioned it in my mind too, how bad could it be? What could go wrong, right? In the end, I wasn't willing to risk it.

Keith

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I'm up to my chin in rimfire right now. I have debated the tuner question a hundred times and know there could be worth to the concept. I shoot NRL/PRS type events so I just don't know if it's a fit for how I shoot.
My practical accuracy is just over an inch with multiple, multiple 10 shot groups and probably closer to .8 - .9 on average with multiple 5 shot groups. My groups seem round if not more horizintal than anything. I have read all I can find on the net about tuners and like reading any new threads on them here as well but think I better not open another can of worms at this time.

Linebaugh, If the question about a tuner is because you shoot off a bi-pod, I know it will work.
I know of a Vudoo that uses a lite tuner and he reported an improvement and shoots off a bi-pod.
the barrel is threaded and a shim/thread protector was used so a slip on Harrell could be used.

possible to get your current .8-.9 groups in the .5-.3, depending on how good the ammo you are using getting into the .2 is a possibility and wouldn't surprise me.

Lee

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

These are coming soon. The one pictured is a prototype but the biggest difference in it and the finished product is there will be numbers engraved rather than just hash marks for reference. Tuner itself weighs right at 5 ounces.

The two bagged parts are adapters for either 5/8-24 or 1/2-28 threaded muzzles.
I have adapters and hope to have the new tuners on hand in a couple of weeks.
I also offer clamp on adapters for those applications. ---Mike

 

[Tony K Harper]

Mike,

Great looking products. I'm sure they will work and sell well.

Now don't laugh too hard, but here is my attempt at getting around the potential problems with the Harrel's clamp on tuners.

As has been mentioned the inside bore can be crushed by outside pressure such as tightening the clamp. Also the Harrel's has a spring, a ball, and loose fitting groves to give the click stops. None of these things seem to be a good idea hanging out on the end of a barrel.

So here is a design that I copied from an old friend Bob Messina.


The sleeve is a gauge fit to the barrel and glued in place. Then the other parts are screwed on. The tube piece faces against the end of the barrel to hold the tuner in position. It has no marks so a caliper is used to repeat locations. Notice the weight heads can be of different shapes and sizes. Crude, but they do work. Are they better than a regular Harrel's? The answer is not always.
But they are always cheaper if you make them yourself.

TKH

 

[RAVAGE88]

Mike,

Great looking products. I'm sure they will work and sell well.

Now don't laugh too hard, but here is my attempt at getting around the potential problems with the Harrel's clamp on tuners.

As has been mentioned the inside bore can be crushed by outside pressure such as tightening the clamp. Also the Harrel's has a spring, a ball, and loose fitting groves to give the click stops. None of these things seem to be a good idea hanging out on the end of a barrel.

So here is a design that I coped from an old friend Bob Messina.
View attachment 1198807 View attachment 1198808

The sleeve is a gauge fit to the barrel and glued in place. Then the other parts are screwed on. The tube piece faces against the end of the barrel to hold the tuner in position. It has no marks so a caliper is used to repeat locations. Notice the weight heads can be of different shapes and sizes. Crude, but they do work. Are they better than a regular Harrel's? The answer is not always.
But they are always cheaper if you make them yourself.

TKH

I like that TKH, and you're correct, the collapsing diameter clamping method can be problematic. I know you know this, so for the benefit of those following along, the best way to avoid any problems is precisely slip fitting the tuner to the muzzle so clamping force can be kept at an extreme minimum.

MB

 

[mattt]

Have an ezell clamp on on my rim fire bench rifle ,top quality and outstanding result. Plus he makes the only tuner that could be bored out enough to fit the truck axle barrel on my Finnish valmet lion from the 70,s

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Thanks Lee. I will give that a go also.

You're welcome, good luck.

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Since this is about tuners. very interesting exchanges going on at BRC might want to go check it out.
some surprising revelation!

Lee

 

[USMCDOC]

Since this is about tuners. very interesting exchanges going on at BRC might want to go check it out.
some surprising revelation!

Lee

do you have a link to that conversation?

 

[Tony K Harper]

Here you go. http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?102079-Tuners!!!!

TKH

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

do you have a link to that conversation?

Doc, maybe I'm confusing you with someone else..please correct me if so...but aren't you and Lee pretty close? I would've thought he might've mentioned it to you before posting it on here. Maybe not.

Either way, not much data there. Just bantering back and forth. If that's what you like..yes, it was pretty good. Drama mostly, if you're so inclined.