No signs of pressure yet

[clunker]

I'm in the process of working up my very first handload in 6.5 CM. I went to the range today with 6 different powder loads in an attempt to detect signs of pressure, but I'm not seeing any yet. I'm new at this, so I wanted to make sure I'm not missing something. I started at a conservative 38.0gr and worked up to 39.6. Primers still have rounded corners, and all cases ejected with little effort. Those are the only things I know to watch for. I imagine that some primers are manufactured with softer metals than others, so I might not see flattened ones like I did with Hornady factory ammo. For the record I'm loading with CCI BR4, and I'm testing all rounds with a seating depth of 0.020 for now.

According to Hodgdon, max load of H4350 behind a 140gr bullet is 40.4. According to Nosler, that number is 41.0. Both of those numbers are based on Hornady cases, which have a larger capacity than Lapua. It seems like I should be seeing pressure signs at a powder load of 39.6. Am I missing something?

 

[dstoenner]

If you look at the max load it is for a 140 seated deep in the cartridge. When seated long you max load is higher. I don’t shoot a 6.5cm but have noticed most people post about loads from 40.5 to 41.5. My match load for my 260 Rem was 42.5 and it wasn’t max

I would start at least at 40.0

David

 

[gman47564]

Just my opinion but those numbers in the manuals are pretty conservative.. do you have and use a chrono.. i would keep increasing charge weight in .3 tenths increments looking to get up in the lower 2700's at least for speed.. thats with a 24 or 26 inch barrel..

 

[clunker]

I have been increasing loads by 0.3, but now I'm thinking about dialing down to 0.2 since I should be getting close. Unfortunately, I can't load at the range. There is only one bench, and it would be rude to make everyone else at the range wait while I spend hours dialing in a load. Also, I don't have a chrono, but I might budget for one next year. If most people are at more than 40.5, then maybe I'll load a ladder up to 41 and just stop when I see signs of pressure.

An interesting observation is that the two hottest loads at the range today were 0.09 MOA (virtually the same hole) and closer to the target center than the other rounds. Maybe a coincidence, or maybe worth noting.

 

[gman47564]

What kind of rifle are you loading these for clunker

 

[clunker]

What kind of rifle are you loading these for clunker

It's a Tikka T3x Superlite in 6.5CM (24.3" barrel). This is my hunting rifle, and even factory loads are good enough for this purpose. However, I'm using the experience as a model for when I start loading the .223 for competition. Also doesn't hurt that my handloads are half the price of factory ammo.

 

[gman47564]

I also hunt with a tikka t3x lite. Not the superlite.. my tikka has a slow barrel as most do from my understanding.. super accurate though.. my hunting load is a 143 eldx with h4350 at 42.3 grains.. gives me about 2700 fps.. not trying to tell you to go that high but thats safe in my gun.. no pressure signs.. work your way up if you choose.. mine also shot good at 41.5 gr. But was in the low 2600's for speed..

 

[clunker]

I also hunt with a tikka t3x lite. Not the superlite.. my tikka has a slow barrel as most do from my understanding.. super accurate though.. my hunting load is a 143 eldx with h4350 at 42.3 grains.. gives me about 2700 fps.. not trying to tell you to go that high but thats safe in my gun.. no pressure signs.. work your way up if you choose.. mine also shot good at 41.5 gr. But was in the low 2600's for speed..

I'll take accuracy over velocity any day. At what seating depth are you able to cram 42.3 grains of powder, and what brass are you using?

 

[MagnumManiac]

Your rifle will never have the tolerances that a pressure barrel does.
Therefore, your barrel will produce LESS pressure than the book does...yes it is true that some rifles will show pressure before max in the book, but this is pretty rare in general.
You don’t want to be running on the ragged edge of pressure anyway, dose it down a bit and be happy that your brass will last longer.

Cheers.

 

[gman47564]

as you should... im using hornady cases with a cbto of 2.276 and oal of 2.918...42.3 grains gives about 95% case fill... nothing is crammed in any thing...lol and in my gun thats where my testing showed the best accuracy... ymmv...

 

[David Christian]

I'm in the process of working up my very first handload in 6.5 CM. I went to the range today with 6 different powder loads in an attempt to detect signs of pressure, but I'm not seeing any yet. I'm new at this, so I wanted to make sure I'm not missing something. I started at a conservative 38.0gr and worked up to 39.6. Primers still have rounded corners, and all cases ejected with little effort. Those are the only things I know to watch for. I imagine that some primers are manufactured with softer metals than others, so I might not see flattened ones like I did with Hornady factory ammo. For the record I'm loading with CCI BR4, and I'm testing all rounds with a seating depth of 0.020 for now.

According to Hodgdon, max load of H4350 behind a 140gr bullet is 40.4. According to Nosler, that number is 41.0. Both of those numbers are based on Hornady cases, which have a larger capacity than Lapua. It seems like I should be seeing pressure signs at a powder load of 39.6. Am I missing something?

You could keep going higher with your powder. My 6.5 CM liked closer to 41 grains of H4350 with the 140 grain bullets.

 

[Mikemci]

Keep going until you see pressure signs, back off to the best grouping.
If this is done in the Summer months, you are good. If done in cold weather, go down 1 more node and you should have found a good year round load. You can save time/components when you find your first accuracy node, go in 3% increments to find your next node.
This is my method. If you are afraid of pressure signs, ignore this. But you will eventually end up with the same load, any way you do it. Good luck!

 

[clunker]

Update

I fired a ladder of nine powder loads and hit the range this morning. Highest load was 41.4gr, and still no signs of pressure. I'm shocked. primers are still rounded and all cases ejected effortlessly. Groups were significantly tighter than last trip to the range. Loads at 41.0, 41.2, and 41.4 are all touching each other on the target sheet, so I may have already found this rifle's happy place.

 

[Fuj]

Update Loads at 41.0, 41.2, and 41.4 are all touching each other on the target sheet, so I may have already found this rifle's happy place.

It appears so.....What particular 140gr bullet are you using ??

 

[clunker]

It appears so.....What particular 140gr bullet are you using ??

This rifle is for hunting, so I have been loading with Nosler Ballistic Tip. Eventually, I will be loading with Nosler Accubonds, but Ballistic Tips are a fraction of the cost with identical ballistics, so I've been cheating a bit. Might have to make some fine tuning adjustments after switching, but the two should be very close.

 

[grovey]

I was well north of 42grs in Lapua brass with 139gr Scenars in my T3X Lite. Solid 1/4" load in my gun, and it spit a handful of .1's along the way. I was jumping 0.023. The Scenar doubles a good deer bullet too.

 

[Flouncer]

Regarding the pressure signs, look for circular scratches on the case head. These are the first signs in my Tikka hunting rifle with max loads I have worked up. These marks can be caused by brass flow or deformation and resultant interference when the bolt is rotated after the shot. Always ahead of sticky bolt or flattened primers in my case. Maybe some better shooters can explain better . . . .

 

[clunker]

I was well north of 42grs in Lapua brass with 139gr Scenars in my T3X Lite. Solid 1/4" load in my gun, and it spit a handful of .1's along the way. I was jumping 0.023. The Scenar doubles a good deer bullet too.

Just curious how wide your accuracy node was when developing that load. I took a closer look at my target sheet and could only count 8 out of 9 holes. Finally found the ninth one in the middle of the 3-shot grouping of the hottest loads. That's four shots with four different powder loads (40.8, 41.0, 41.2, 41.4) that resulted in .26 MOA. Maybe it was just dumb luck, but that seems like a very wide node for that kind of consistency.

 

[PigButtons]

Another way to look at this. 40.8 to 41.4; that's only a titch over half a grain. Most factory ammo will have a larger span than that in the same box. Not such a big spread for an accuracy node. This is why a chrono is a good tool; you could have some significant velocity spread and it won't show up much at 100 yards, at 300 it could be significant.

The smile never goes away.Be glad your rifle is so forgiving and shoot it, shoot it, and then shoot it some more. Congrats on such a nice rifle.

 

[Bluenose]

I’m currently going through this exact same thing with a 20” CTR in 6.5CM, H4350, hornady brass, CCI 200 primers, 143gr ELD-X. I worked up to 43gr in 0.3gr increments with only slightly flattened primers and no other signs. Even then, the factory hornady ammo shows more sign in the primers. I’m new at this too so don’t take this as advice or anything, but it does seem that the manuals are conservative at least for my gun. Velocities aren’t stable for me up there so I’m probably going to drop back to a lower node around 40.5