Who uses HBN
- Thread starter 46and2
- Start date
For bullet coating in a vibratory tumbler I am using steel balls and HCPL grade Boron. For barrel treatment I am using AC6111 in a suspension of alcohol.
If you are interested in some HCPL send me an e-mail.
Fbikegreatlakes@gmail.com
If you are interested in some HCPL send me an e-mail.
Fbikegreatlakes@gmail.com
R.Morehouse
Gold $$ Contributor
I use " Tubb Dust" in a Thumbler vibrator using Tubb's supplied bottle....Why?.....Because I believe he already did the heavy lifting when it comes to size & application. I have not tried any other method, never saw the need. I got the desired result I was looking for. To be quite honest, I find I use it for ease of cleaning more than anything else.
Regards
Rick
Regards
Rick
WyleWD
Silver $$ Contributor
+1^^ We found that using acetone to clean the bullets prior to coating produced much more consistent coating results. Cleans thoroughly, and dries faster and more completely than any other cleaner. Key is to just follow the directions that are included with the kit. I Agree with R.Morehouse's post. JME. WD
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I use danzac(tungsten disulfide) but as John and WD have said, I like to wash them in acetone and then dry them in some way, to get them hot enough to where they are uncomfortable to hold in my hand. I typically do this one of two ways. In the summer or warmer months, I simply wash them and pour them out on a towel to dry in the sun. In colder months, etc, I use a heat lamp to do the same thing. If you have a dehydrator or other oven that can be adjusted to somewhere in the 150-180° range, I see no reason not to use it. I'm poor so I use what I have.
Cleaning them and coating them while warm does give me a nicer finished product, though. I attribute it to, obviously, removing any remaining lube from the bullets. Warming the bullets seems to dry out the danzac, which gets a little "clammy" in my area, due to humidity and the heat does likely open the pores of the jacket to better take the coating on.
I've tried different media, such as ceramic and steel ball bearings but once you figure out the right quantity of bullets you can coat at once in your tumbler bowl, I find it to work just as well without using any media to have to separate from the bullets when done, which cab be a little tedious. So, I just let the bullets impact plate with no media added to them. There's more than one way to do this and get good results, IOW. I let them run for 2-4 hours with two being pretty minimal. I get a little better results using my method if I let them run a little longer than that.
Danzac seems to be pretty neutral in terms of it changing the velocity or load that I use. I've actually shot coated and naked, round robin, without seeing any difference in most barrels. HBN and moly both seems to change pressures a little bit. That's why I prefer danzac over them, mostly. It's a little nasty to handle but once coated, I dump them into another old towel and roll them back and forth to buff them off a bit. After that, they are shiny silver/greyish and are much less messy to handle but you still get black fingers. Gloves are probably a good idea but I don't usually wear them, myself. It washes off of my hands pretty easily with dawn and water.
As others have mentioned, I use it because I see no downside to using it and it greatly reduces how often I need to clean the barrel. I don't clean during an entire day of shooting and have won a few matches with around 400 rounds on the barrel since being cleaned. The barrel cleans right up and no or nearly no copper..depending on the barrel, of course.
I've been using this process since about 2007 or 2008..It works for me and I think I'll keep using it.
Cleaning them and coating them while warm does give me a nicer finished product, though. I attribute it to, obviously, removing any remaining lube from the bullets. Warming the bullets seems to dry out the danzac, which gets a little "clammy" in my area, due to humidity and the heat does likely open the pores of the jacket to better take the coating on.
I've tried different media, such as ceramic and steel ball bearings but once you figure out the right quantity of bullets you can coat at once in your tumbler bowl, I find it to work just as well without using any media to have to separate from the bullets when done, which cab be a little tedious. So, I just let the bullets impact plate with no media added to them. There's more than one way to do this and get good results, IOW. I let them run for 2-4 hours with two being pretty minimal. I get a little better results using my method if I let them run a little longer than that.
Danzac seems to be pretty neutral in terms of it changing the velocity or load that I use. I've actually shot coated and naked, round robin, without seeing any difference in most barrels. HBN and moly both seems to change pressures a little bit. That's why I prefer danzac over them, mostly. It's a little nasty to handle but once coated, I dump them into another old towel and roll them back and forth to buff them off a bit. After that, they are shiny silver/greyish and are much less messy to handle but you still get black fingers. Gloves are probably a good idea but I don't usually wear them, myself. It washes off of my hands pretty easily with dawn and water.
As others have mentioned, I use it because I see no downside to using it and it greatly reduces how often I need to clean the barrel. I don't clean during an entire day of shooting and have won a few matches with around 400 rounds on the barrel since being cleaned. The barrel cleans right up and no or nearly no copper..depending on the barrel, of course.
I've been using this process since about 2007 or 2008..It works for me and I think I'll keep using it.
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I bought a pound of half micron hbn from lower friction. Tumbled with bbs work great.
Then i read wash first, now i have to wash them or it doesnt work right.
Soapy water, solvent.
Then i read vibrate clean or it wont stick, yup. Have to do that now too or it doesnt work right.
Refuse to heat them.
The more i read the worse i get.
Bought the tubb kit to compare results. Afraid to try. But i will.
Hbn reduces copper deposits. 100, 200 rounds thru the AR or 6mm rem 700.
Bore Tech copper slopper swab bore hardly any copper.
Rub used patches on new bullet makes blue!
Copper stopper!
I will continue to try, just not today.
Then i read wash first, now i have to wash them or it doesnt work right.
Soapy water, solvent.
Then i read vibrate clean or it wont stick, yup. Have to do that now too or it doesnt work right.
Refuse to heat them.
The more i read the worse i get.
Bought the tubb kit to compare results. Afraid to try. But i will.
Hbn reduces copper deposits. 100, 200 rounds thru the AR or 6mm rem 700.
Bore Tech copper slopper swab bore hardly any copper.
Rub used patches on new bullet makes blue!
Copper stopper!
I will continue to try, just not today.
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46and2
Silver $$ Contributor
Just vibratory tumble in a bottle ( no BBs or media) for 40 min. Works perfectly.
When I started using it I read all the crap people do to prep ... acetone, heat, SS media. So I got tired of the ceremony and tried it bullet on bullet with fresh bullets right out of the box. Works great.
When I started using it I read all the crap people do to prep ... acetone, heat, SS media. So I got tired of the ceremony and tried it bullet on bullet with fresh bullets right out of the box. Works great.
I stopped using HBN after experimenting with it for a couple of years. The first thing I noticed that concerned me was that it took significantly more force to seat coated bullets than it did to seat naked bullets. It had nothing do do with neck tension - same brass with the same sizing process and every single coated bulled took more force than the uncoated ones. One batch of Lapua Palma .308 brass took so much force to seat coated bullets that the jackets were being damaged - naked bullets in the same cases seated easily. HBN was giving me less copper fouling so I kept using it as I was shooting up to 100 rounds a day in competition and it let me do so without cleaning. The next issue I observed, and which really concerned me was the day I went to pull some 6xc loads that had HBN coated 107 grain SMKs. They had been loaded for about 18 months and I could not get them to budge - neither collet nor kinetic puller would break them free of the case necks. I tried seating the bullets deeper thinking it might break whatever bond was present and then try and pull them however the force required to seat them deeper ruined the majority of the bullets. At that point I stopped using HBN.
I have no explanation for why these problems were occurring and know many people who successfully use HBN without these issues. It remains a mystery to me.
I have no explanation for why these problems were occurring and know many people who successfully use HBN without these issues. It remains a mystery to me.
Similar neck experience! Darn things like gravel with super glue. I do not recall the neck issues in my earlier coatings and loads.
The other post above by 46and2 gives me hope. I aint quittin!
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
I have been using HBN in a rotary tumbler with ball bearings for about five years. I have used moly for at least twice that long and have shot many thousands of bullets coated in each. The feel of HBN on a bullet gives the illusion that it is not as slick as moly because one's finger tends to not want to slide across the bullet as it does with moly. This is akin to pushing your hand down on a pane of glass and pushing it to slide across the glass. As slick as glass is - you will find similar resistance - but that does not mean the glass is not smooth, quite the contrary. Regarding bullets getting stuck in a case using HBN - one should recognize that HBN is hygroscopic and will pull moisture from the air. Having that moisture held against a jacketed bullet for a period of time can (will eventually) lead to a rough surface on the inside of the neck and bullet jacket which can create considerable friction to extract the bullet - and possibly fusion of the case and bullet. The moly I use says "hygroscopic" right on the label - as intended for bullet coating. Personally, I have stored thousands of rounds in preparation for big varmint shoots. I had an over-abundance loaded up from two years ago and I just fired several hundred of them. No impact shift - and no extra resistance when I extracted a few. I do live in a fairly dry climate and I put a silica pack in jugs which I store the bullets in. I'm guessing it is the method of storage that might cause problems. I have never encountered any pressure issues with loads I keep on the warm side, either. I'm still not sure which method I like best - but both reduce cleaning at a minimum.
I guess it works better for some than others but I've tried just about every method and my way works for me. Do what works for you or don't do it at all. Pretty simple really.
46and2
Silver $$ Contributor
So, back to the question.
What size HBN particles work best?
What size HBN particles work best?
Where did you buy that HBN from? What brand/ particle size?
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
I picked up an almost full box of Berger 17 cal 30 gr match target bullets,treated with hbn. Haven't shot any yet, someday.
I"m in Australia and imported a SSS kit. Not sure what particle size they come with.
Poor Shot 65
Silver $$ Contributor
i buy mine from bulletcoatings.com.
https://www.bulletcoatings.com/product/reloading-bullet-tumbling-boron-nitride-hbn-powder-kit/
Adam
https://www.bulletcoatings.com/product/reloading-bullet-tumbling-boron-nitride-hbn-powder-kit/
Adam
group therapy
Gold $$ Contributor
from what I read, an ymmv, you want to use the 1/2 micron size. the nano size is small enough to sneak through your skin and into your body( its so small it will creep between your skin cells
) and while hbn is non toxic, you dont want it like this. the bigger than 1/2 micron is supposedly responsible for some of the reported problems ( hard seating, scratching things, etc). I have been using the .5 size and love it. after 1200 rounds(Krieger barrel, 6.5 cm [ I know, I know, y'all
]) the throat still looks new and I only clean about every 500 rounds. and it shoots like crazy, several 4 shot groups at 600 that are in the 3/4" range. yeah, I know 4 dont count!! it shoots almost any load and bullet into low .2's at 100!! its almost scary
. I aint sayin the hbn has anything to do with it but you can bet I AINT changing ANYTHING!! good luck sir
Four shots still count but with no pictures it didn’t happen lolfrom what I read, an ymmv, you want to use the 1/2 micron size. the nano size is small enough to sneak through your skin and into your body( its so small it will creep between your skin cells
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