221 question

[afret]

Will a 0.030 freebore work OK with a 221 and 40 grain Bergers? If not, how well would 52 grain Bergers work in a 221? Is a 14 twist the way to go? Thanks!

 

[Ackman]

Will a 0.030 freebore work OK with a 221 and 40 grain Bergers? If not, how well would 52 grain Bergers work in a 221? Is a 14 twist the way to go? Thanks!

 

[Ackman]

Definitely go with 0 (zero) freebore. And a 40gr. bullet is just perfect for that case. Never used 40 Bergers, but with 0 freebore a 40 ballistic tip to the lands seats about 1/2 way down the neck, or slightly more. It's perfect for varmints which is all I shoot. You don't need freebore with this cartridge. My very much used 14 twist .221 is always loaded with 40's, but it also shoots 50's very well. Can't say about Berger 52s, never used them either. People get carried away with the twist thing, but not that many years ago a 14 twist wasn't considered "slow". And it's not that particular about which bullet like the fast twists can be. Back when the 55gr. Blitzking came out people were saying it wouldn't shoot well in a 14 twist, it was too long. Well in my .223 it would shoot little bughole groups through a 14" twist barrel. Now, I'm at 6500' elevation but did a whole lot of load workups back when living at sea level, and 14 twist was the deal back then. You'll get different advice on this but going with a new .221, my reamer is 0 freebore and I'd be using a 14twist barrel.

 

[LCazador]

I did my first custom .221 Fireball chamber back in the mid 1980's, rifle that is. I've shot the little cartridge since 1965 in an XP100 pistol. When I did the rifle I decided that a 14 twist wasn't adequate for the 52g benchrest bullets and I went with a 13 twist. I also had that reamer made with a .020" freebore . It's been nothing but fantastic shooting. I had that reamer reground with a 35 degree shoulder. It's amazing what that 35 degree shoulder did for that cartridge. I have three rifles in 221 and all have a 12 twist and yes they shoot the 40 grain just as well however my preference is now 55 grain ballistic tip bullets. The benchrest bullets are more accurate but just don't have the splat factor!

 

[afret]

Thanks guys for the info. I asked about the 0.03 freebore because I was looking at a Savage prefit barrel and that's what the barrel maker offers in 221. The SAAMI 221 print shows a 0.025 FB. So a 0.04 FB won't work at all with 40 grain flat base bullets?

And is the recoil light enough to actually see the bullet hit the target though the scope?

 

[Evan]

Nothing wrong with a 14 twist, but a 12 twist doesn't hurt accuracy either and makes sure you won't have trouble with the 52-53gn boat tail match bullets if you choose to try them. The 221 is so wonderfully accurate, you may find yourself wanting to try out match bullets!

A 0.030" freebore is perfectly suitable, if that's the reamer you have available. It will shoot 40's with enough neck to chase the lands a little (lands don't move much with 17gns of powder). 0.030" FB is what I ran in my 22-250 with 50-55gn bullets. If you're spec'ing one from scratch for the 40s, I'd go with a zero.

EDIT: Recoil is light. Rifle weight and setup will determine if you can see your hits. a 16-17 pound BR rifle with a 26" HV barrel, Vortex GE set at 40x - I was able to see hits at 100 yards. I moved on to the 20 Vartarg and enjoy it more than the 221.

 

[afret]

Nothing wrong with a 14 twist, but a 12 twist doesn't hurt accuracy either and makes sure you won't have trouble with the 52-53gn boat tail match bullets if you choose to try them. The 221 is so wonderfully accurate, you may find yourself wanting to try out match bullets!

A 0.030" freebore is perfectly suitable, if that's the reamer you have available. It will shoot 40's with enough neck to chase the lands a little (lands don't move much with 17gns of powder). 0.030" FB is what I ran in my 22-250 with 50-55gn bullets. If you're spec'ing one from scratch for the 40s, I'd go with a zero.

EDIT: Recoil is light. Rifle weight and setup will determine if you can see your hits. a 16-17 pound BR rifle with a 26" HV barrel, Vortex GE set at 40x - I was able to see hits at 100 yards. I moved on to the 20 Vartarg and enjoy it more than the 221.

Thank you for your reply. I just put together a 222 and just waiting for the local range to open to try it out. Getting sick of this virus closure (boredom) so I'm thinking of putting together a 221 since I have two Savage target actions with 223s and figured a 221 might be interesting. I think I'd just have to get a barrel, full length neck die, seating die, lapua brass, and a pilot for my annealer. If I stick with flat base bullets, I think the 14T will let me use 55 grainers.

The 20 VT sounds interesting but I don't want to mess around with forming brass. It was kind of a pain to form the old style 22 BR brass and that was enough brass forming for me. LOL

 

[Evan]

Thank you for your reply. I just put together a 222 and just waiting for the local range to open to try it out. Getting sick of this virus closure (boredom) so I'm thinking of putting together a 221 since I have two Savage target actions with 223s and figured a 221 might be interesting. I think I'd just have to get a barrel, full length neck die, seating die, lapua brass, and a pilot for my annealer. If I stick with flat base bullets, I think the 14T will let me use 55 grainers.

The 20 VT sounds interesting but I don't want to mess around with forming brass. It was kind of a pain to form the old style 22 BR brass and that was enough brass forming for me. LOL

The 20 Vartarg is easier than a 22BR to form: single easy pass through an affordable Hornady off-the-shelf FL die and you're there. No trimming or anything else. You can also buy Lake City formed and ready to go from places like Sleeping Giant Brass (https://sleepinggiantbrass.com/20-vartarg-brass) at reasonable prices. If you're interested in a 20 Vartarg, I wouldn't hesitate (I would hesitate to recommend the 22BR for comparison: it's definitely harder).

The 221 is a lot of fun! I bet you'll enjoy it.

 

[afret]

The 20 Vartarg is easier than a 22BR to form: single easy pass through an affordable Hornady off-the-shelf FL die and you're there. No trimming or anything else. You can also buy Lake City formed and ready to go from places like Sleeping Giant Brass (https://sleepinggiantbrass.com/20-vartarg-brass) at reasonable prices. If you're interested in a 20 Vartarg, I wouldn't hesitate (I would hesitate to recommend the 22BR for comparison: it's definitely harder).

The 221 is a lot of fun! I bet you'll enjoy it.

Just ordered a 221 Redding seater and FL bushing dies and Lapua 221 brass. Probably will end up trying a 20 VT sometime in the future. Now I have to figure out what length barrel to order. Thanks again!

 

[LCazador]

Thanks guys for the info. I asked about the 0.03 freebore because I was looking at a Savage prefit barrel and that's what the barrel maker offers in 221. The SAAMI 221 print shows a 0.025 FB. So a 0.04 FB won't work at all with 40 grain flat base bullets?

And is the recoil light enough to actually see the bullet hit the target though the scope?

You'll need at a Remington varmint taper barrel or heavier to see impact with 40-50gr bullets especially with your scope set at the higher power. Lower power more field of view. There is very little difference in recoil between a 40 and a 50g bullet. It will not show up in spotting more hits.

 

[afret]

You'll need at a Remington varmint taper barrel or heavier to see impact with 40-50gr bullets especially with your scope set at the higher power. Lower power more field of view. There is very little difference in recoil between a 40 and a 50g bullet. It will not show up in spotting more hits.

I'm planning on a varmint contour with 0.900 diameter muzzle end so would that in 20" length be probably heavy enough or should I go longer to increase the chances of being able to see the hits? Thanks.

 

[LCazador]

Gaspar agrees with this. Go longer! I started off with 26 mch maybe's and wound up with 20 inch shooters. But never with 26 inch shooters and 20 maybe's. Me been lucky maybe you not? Reverse is not an option!

 

[afret]

Gaspar agrees with this. Go longer! I started off with 26 mch maybe's and wound up with 20 inch shooters. But never with 26 inch shooters and 20 maybe's. Me been lucky maybe you not? Reverse is not an option!

OK! Thanks for the advice. Will go with 26".

 

[Ackman]

OK! Thanks for the advice. Will go with 26".

You may be over thinking this a bit. One of the nice things about the Fireball is it only burns about 20gr of powder, + or - depending on your load. My first one, still have it, on a small Sako action with a 23" barrel .800 at the muzzle isn't very heavy. The gun is easily handled in/out of the truck and quick to set up. Yet there's next to no felt recoil and no muzzle jump to speak of. The gun has shot literally thousands of groundsquirrels and pd's, and a ton of rockchucks. Using 20x at Fireball ranges, the crosshairs don't move from the target. No problem seeing hits or misses even at under 100yds. The gun just doesn't move. The newest one also on an A1 action has a heavier barrel because that's what the guy was selling. But 23-24" is plenty long enough. And yours will be on a short Savage action? Those things are longer and heavier than the small Sako and the short Rem. 700, you won't need a truck axle size barrel to enjoy shooting that cartridge and I'm not sure there's any worthwhile gain in velocity.

One thing - make sure the chamber is spec'd to work with Lapua brass. That stuff is larger in the web than Rem. 221.

 

[afret]

You may be over thinking this a bit. One of the nice things about the Fireball is it only burns about 20gr of powder, + or - depending on your load. My first one, still have it, on a small Sako action with a 23" barrel .800 at the muzzle isn't very heavy. The gun is easily handled in/out of the truck and quick to set up. Yet there's next to no felt recoil and no muzzle jump to speak of. The gun has shot literally thousands of groundsquirrels and pd's, and a ton of rockchucks. Using 20x at Fireball ranges, the crosshairs don't move from the target. No problem seeing hits or misses even at under 100yds. The gun just doesn't move. The newest one also on an A1 action has a heavier barrel because that's what the guy was selling. But 23-24" is plenty long enough. And yours will be on a short Savage action? Those things are longer and heavier than the small Sako and the short Rem. 700, you won't need a truck axle size barrel to enjoy shooting that cartridge and I'm not sure there's any worthwhile gain in velocity.

One thing - make sure the chamber is spec'd to work with Lapua brass. That stuff is larger in the web than Rem. 221.

Thank you very much for the info. That's a good point about the web area. I better ask the question before ordering the barrel. Seems similar to the difference between the old Rem BR and the Norma BR chambers. I used an undersize 45 ACP die to get Lapua brass to fit the old Rem 22BR chamber. Is there an equivalent die for the 221 just in case?

I'm planning of just shooting this rifle off a bench so a heavy gun won't be a problem. But it would be nice to have a barrel on the shorter side as long as I can see the bullet strikes if possible.

 

[SmokinJoe]

From what you are saying, I would recommend a factory varmint sorta weight or something like a #6 HBR or Remington Sedero. For the chambering you will need the back end a couple thousandths bigger and the neck a couple thousandths bigger for Lapua brass. I have attached a print of my reamer which seems to work pretty well with Redding dies. If I was going to change anything it would be to make the back end .001 larger. The 221FB is a wonderful little utility round and very accurate with good handloads. I have two and they frequently shoot 5 shot groups under 1/4".

 

[afret]

From what you are saying, I would recommend a factory varmint sorta weight or something like a #6 HBR or Remington Sedero. For the chambering you will need the back end a couple thousandths bigger and the neck a couple thousandths bigger for Lapua brass. I have attached a print of my reamer which seems to work pretty well with Redding dies. If I was going to change anything it would be to make the back end .001 larger. The 221FB is a wonderful little utility round and very accurate with good handloads. I have two and they frequently shoot 5 shot groups under 1/4".

Wow! Thank you for the attached print. The diameter of the web looks to be almost 0.002 bigger than the standard chamber. So even a bit larger is better?

 

[SmokinJoe]

Didn't look at my print again before I posted it. I have run both Remington and Lapua in my rifles without issue so it's good to go as is. Sorry for the misleading statement.

 

[afret]

Didn't look at my print again before I posted it. I have run both Remington and Lapua in my rifles without issue so it's good to go as is. Sorry for the misleading statement.

Thanks again for the info. Shilen has a print of their chamber and the diameter near the web is the same as the one on your print so it should be good to go. Their neck is bigger also which is great for Lapua brass but the space for the overall length of the brass is about 0.017 longer (same as on the SAAMI print) than in your print. Shilen throats this one separately so they can do a 0 FB so it should work out well. Going to order from Shilen through NSS.

 

[ArtinNC]

I'm going to build a 221 FB because I have a lot of ammo ( brass Bullets and Powder ) from shooting XP100's pistols and going to Rechamber my 222 Rem XP100 rifle to 221 fireball . So if you are only shooting 52 grain bullets ( burger) what would be a good Free Bore ? I'm getting a new reamer 30 deg shoulder .020 fb and a 250 neck . I do all my own lathe work and with ammo hard to find , and being board , I need something to miss with .