Varget 308 load question

[coffeediver]

I worked up some loads for my Savage FCP-K that I shoot suppressed in the spring of 2017. I am using Lapua brass, CCI BR2 primers and 175gr SMK's. At that time using the Hodgdon website I started at 41.8gr and went up .3gr to 43.9 grains. If I remember correctly, the max load was about 45grs.
I ended up using 43.3 grs and while using a Caldwell chrony I was getting velocities up around 2750 fps when the Hodgdon website said I should have been around 2690 if I remember correctly. I also was getting signs of pressure with raised extractor marks on the cash head and had one case head separation. The brass at that time had no more than 3 to 4 loads on them.
I have decided to work up loads again. Now looking up the loads on Hodgdon's website now shows that the 308 using 175gr bullet and Varget powder shows starting loads at 44grs at 2759fps and max at 47grs at 2909fps. Can this be correct? What am I missing?

Barry

 

[Homerange]

Yep those loads seem way over the top when ~45gr of Varget is a compressed load.
Have a look at the ADI site where they make Varget for some more conservative 175gr loadings.
http://www.adi-powders.com.au/rifle/308-winchester

 

[Ned Ludd]

You also have to consider that no reloading manual knows the amount of freebore your rifle has or the actual seating depth of loaded rounds if they are not loaded to mag length, the burn rate of your particular Lot# of Varget, or the internal volume of the brand of brass you're using. In addition to the notion that different reloading manuals may utilize anything from a very conservative to a very liberal approach, there are a number of additional caveats that can also affect pressure/velocity that cannot be taken into account by a reloading manual.

 

[JFrank]

I’m not sure why @Ned Ludd is up at that hour of the night but I would echo the exact same thing
he said.
J

 

[308 5R]

I’m running the same exact components. Lapua brass, CCI BR2, 43 gr varget, 175 SMK, 2.80” I would consider 45 gr to be pushing the limits pretty hard with that combo. From my notes, I worked from 42.6-45.3 in .3 increments and the last two loads had decent ejector marks/swiping. Settled at 43.0 gr for 2625. Have been satisfied for a decade with a 10 shot half inch load out of an early Rem 700 5R. As usual YMMV, but that seems real stiff.

S/F
Ryan

 

[10XSHOOTER]

Pass on the Varget, Go to 42.0 grs of IMR 4064 with a 175.
this was our match load for Navy M-14's. I still shoot it out of a 22" bolt gun. my av vel is 2630 with a SD of 7.2.
you can also shoot the same load with a 168 MK.

 

[BillC79]

The 45 grain load data for Varget from the Hodgdon site is for Winchester brass. Case volume capacity may explain the difference. I don’t know the case volume for Winchester brass. However, my measurements on Lapua large primer brass are at 55.5 grains. My measurements for form-fired Lapua Palma brass and fired and full-resized Hornady brass are 56.2 grains. According to QuickLoad, 45 grains of Varget can be loaded into my 56.2 grain capacity cases with 175 SMK’s at 2.85COL without predicted over pressures.

For my 24” barreled .308, I have been shooting 175 SMK’s in large primer Lapua brass with BR2 primers and 43.5gr Varget and getting 2656 FPS at 65F ambient temperatures. I have no visible brass problems after 8 reloads (9 firings).

 

[Straightshooter1]

You also have to consider that no reloading manual knows the amount of freebore your rifle has or the actual seating depth of loaded rounds if they are not loaded to mag length, the burn rate of your particular Lot# of Varget, or the internal volume of the brand of brass you're using. In addition to the notion that different reloading manuals may utilize anything from a very conservative to a very liberal approach, there are a number of additional caveats that can also affect pressure/velocity that cannot be taken into account by a reloading manual.

^^^^^
all of this

And my lot of Varget has a burn rate significantly higher than what the the manuals apparently use as I get higher velocities and pressure signs at a lower powder charges than the max published. . . even when loading well longer than the 2.800 COAL.

I get good results in my .308 at 43.6 grs, Lapua Brass @ COAL 2.860, Fed 210M primer, velocity - 2674 fps from a 24" barrel.

 

[Kurz]

You also have to consider that no reloading manual knows the amount of freebore your rifle has or the actual seating depth of loaded rounds if they are not loaded to mag length, the burn rate of your particular Lot# of Varget, or the internal volume of the brand of brass you're using. In addition to the notion that different reloading manuals may utilize anything from a very conservative to a very liberal approach, there are a number of additional caveats that can also affect pressure/velocity that cannot be taken into account by a reloading manual.

This is very important to repeat because it covers many of the topics which affect load development that many do not take into consideration. Your barrel, your suppressor, your chamber, throat and freebore all contribute to the potential of load performance which the reloading manuals do not, cannot take into account.

Pass on the Varget, Go to 42.0 grs of IMR 4064 with a 175.
this was our match load for Navy M-14's. I still shoot it out of a 22" bolt gun. my av vel is 2630 with a SD of 7.2.
you can also shoot the same load with a 168 MK.

This can be an important suggestion in many situations.

Put the cap back on the bottle of Varget, date the bottle with today's date and place it back on the shelf.

Now, select 3031, 4064 or 4895 from IMR or VVN-530, Norma N-202, or Re-15. All of these powders can be used successfully over Varget.

Load, test, shoot a good ladder test, and enjoy the process!

 

[Papa Charlie]

My F-TR load and rifle: Caliber .308 Win, Lapua brass, CCI BR-2 primers, Berger 185 Jugs seated 0.010" OTL, Rem 700 action, Benchmark 30" 1:10 twist 5 gr SS barrel with a short freebore of 0.110" and using Varget 42.7 gn load. Getting around 2685 fps. So far no signs of pressure, have over 25 firings on the same cases. I do anneal after every firing.

During development, did see some signs of pressure once I got above 43 gn.

 

[Straightshooter1]

This is very important to repeat because it covers many of the topics which affect load development that many do not take into consideration. Your barrel, your suppressor, your chamber, throat and freebore all contribute to the potential of load performance which the reloading manuals do not, cannot take into account.



This can be an important suggestion in many situations.

Put the cap back on the bottle of Varget, date the bottle with today's date and place it back on the shelf.

Now, select 3031, 4064 or 4895 from IMR or VVN-530, Norma N-202, or Re-15. All of these powders can be used successfully over Varget.

Load, test, shoot a good ladder test, and enjoy the process!

You forgot AR-Comp, which I found works great in my .308 cartridges.

 

[Kurz]

You forgot AR-Comp, which I found works great in my .308 cartridges.

Yep, but I'm not writing a reloading manual either!

I like and use AR Comp for quite a few cartridge/bullet combinations.

 

[Liven The Dream]

2750 magic number for 175 .
All Varget is not equal. Lot to lot a grain different is normal .
4895 will give you a bigger recoil?
I run Peterson SP Brass 450M, 44.0 grains of this lot of Varget 185 Bugers chamber throated for 185’s 2810 .
30” 1-10 F/ Class rifle .
Without the throating not possible.

If not Varget 4064 or 4320 will make you Happy
175 Burger OTM even Happier .

 

[D-4297]

I don't shoot the 175 ; but my 185 Berger Jugg OTM load is 43.8gr of Varget , .010 off . Have a Kreiger 1-10 twist 5r 30" , with .180 Freebore . Shot 50 Thursday at BA and Lab said 2639 -2650 , so all things being equal , your 2740 isn't out of the question , but I do think you might be a little heavy on your load . Or try H-4895 . I also have a load for the 185 using 4895 , and it's 43.1gr / 015 off .

 

[xswanted]

I’m running 43.0 of Varget behind the 175 as well. Lapua brass, BR2 primers.

No pressure signs visible, brass has multiple firings.

24” barrel and I’m exactly at the speed Sierra lists in the manual, 2580.

 

[3Sigma]

Pass on the Varget, Go to 42.0 grs of IMR 4064 with a 175.
this was our match load for Navy M-14's. I still shoot it out of a 22" bolt gun. my av vel is 2630 with a SD of 7.2.
you can also shoot the same load with a 168 MK.

Independently I found my best load for a 24" bbl with a 175gr SMK at 42.1 gr 4064. Funny how some loads just work.

 

[divingin]

Now looking up the loads on Hodgdon's website now shows that the 308 using 175gr bullet and Varget powder shows starting loads at 44grs at 2759fps and max at 47grs at 2909fps.

No idea what you're missing, but when I look at 308/175/Varget data on Hodgdon's Reloading Data Center, I see a max of 45gr compressed.

Might want to double-check in case you had a wrong bit of info selected.

 

[coffeediver]

No idea what you're missing, but when I look at 308/175/Varget data on Hodgdon's Reloading Data Center, I see a max of 45gr compressed.

Might want to double-check in case you had a wrong bit of info selected.

I checked, checked again and rechecked. The night I posted this is what it was showing. I have no explanation of why it is now back to what I remember. I have not had a drink in months either

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

I worked up some loads for my Savage FCP-K that I shoot suppressed in the spring of 2017. I am using Lapua brass, CCI BR2 primers and 175gr SMK's. At that time using the Hodgdon website I started at 41.8gr and went up .3gr to 43.9 grains. If I remember correctly, the max load was about 45grs.
I ended up using 43.3 grs and while using a Caldwell chrony I was getting velocities up around 2750 fps when the Hodgdon website said I should have been around 2690 if I remember correctly. I also was getting signs of pressure with raised extractor marks on the cash head and had one case head separation. The brass at that time had no more than 3 to 4 loads on them.
I have decided to work up loads again. Now looking up the loads on Hodgdon's website now shows that the 308 using 175gr bullet and Varget powder shows starting loads at 44grs at 2759fps and max at 47grs at 2909fps. Can this be correct? What am I missing?

Barry

2020 hogdon load book shows 42-45/ 2690

 

[BDman]

42.8 to 43.6 grains of Varget has been a pretty "go to" load for 175 SMK's in many 1/10-12 and 5R 1/11.25 barrels. But, you must work up to that. Somewhere around 2550-2700 fps in 22"-24" barrels is common. Mine is 43.3 grns Varget 23" bbl 2597/fps and 1/2 moa. Lapua brass and GM210M primers.