First Focal Plane Vs Second Focal Plane

[NCVarhtr]

I'm interested in the Nightforce NS8 scope and I've never owned a first FP scope. I don't like the idea of the reticle increasing as you turn the power ring up. I would use the scope for Target and Hunting. What has been your experience with First FP scopes What are the advantages and disadvantages? I would really appreciate so real insight about the two Focal Planes....Thanks in advance....George

 

[Bisson1990]

What I have been told is sfp for hunting and known distance target, ffp for targets with unknown distances. I am sure there are opinions on all sides of this, but that advice has worked for me to date.

 

[SSL]

I'm interested in the Nightforce NS8 scope and I've never owned a second FP scope. I don't like the idea of the reticle increasing as you turn the power ring up. I would use the scope for Target and Hunting. What has been your experience with First FP scopes What are the advantages and disadvantages? I would really appreciate so real insight about the two Focal Planes....Thanks in advance....George

Second Focal Plane (SFP)
Reticle stays the same regardless of power setting
MilDot or stadia markings are only accurate for distances at manufacturer calibrated power. They change as power increases or decreases.

First Focal Plane (FFP)
Reticle grows or shrinks in relation to power setting.
MilDot or stadia markings remain accurate for distances at any power setting.

 

[X-Caveman]

I'm interested in the Nightforce NS8 scope and I've never owned a second FP scope. I don't like the idea of the reticle increasing as you turn the power ring up. I would use the scope for Target and Hunting. What has been your experience with First FP scopes What are the advantages and disadvantages? I would really appreciate so real insight about the two Focal Planes....Thanks in advance....George

I think the NX8 line is all FFP. The reticle stays the same size relative to the TARGET (not your eye) regardless of magnification setting. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. It depends on the type of hunting and target work you are doing as to which would better suit your needs. If you are target shooting at known distances from solid positions (bench/ prone), trying to aim very small, I'd lean to SFP. Likewise if your hunting is short range, low magnification, fast shooting or in low light. If you are doing lots of range estimation, shooting at multiple distances, holding for wind & elevation, etc, the FFP is probably better.

I have 5-20 and a 6-24 FFP scopes. Even at only 4x magnification range, the reticles get pretty small on the lowest setting, and a bit thick on the highest. With the introduction of these 8x mag range scopes, I really want to see how these challenges are addressed. A lot of thought has to go into the reticle designs. I'm sure it has, I just want to see it with my own eyes.

 

[NCVarhtr]

Field & Cave. Thank you very much for taking the time to share a logical expaination to my question. Almost all of my shooting (even in a box stand) is from a solid rest with sand bags. With the use of range finding Binoculars, specific distances are now available where that was not the case just a few years ago. I like the size of the NX8 scope and I like Nightforce scopes. I have four March scopes in the 2.5-25X52 . Good scopes in a good compact size. I wish Nightforce would make the NX8 in a SFP !!!
Thanks again for your comments.

 

[ckrifles]

I own both FFP and SFP but I lean toward FFP. If you have multiple stadia lines on SFP every time you change power you change the distance between stadia lines so unless you know the distance at each power change. Why have multiple lines ? Just dial up or down with a single cross hair.

 

[NCVarhtr]

ckrifles, I don't have mulitple stadia lines in my scopes. I use either a simple crosshair or the Double Dot in some of the Nightforce scopes. I agree completely that it is so simple to just dial up or down . I suspect that almost all serious shooters today have a quality range finder, either in their Binocular or as a seperate unit, and that dialing is the way to go. I just can't fully appreciate the value of a first FP Scope.

 

[X-Caveman]

Field & Cave. Thank you very much for taking the time to share a logical expaination to my question. Almost all of my shooting (even in a box stand) is from a solid rest with sand bags. With the use of range finding Binoculars, specific distances are now available where that was not the case just a few years ago. I like the size of the NX8 scope and I like Nightforce scopes. I have four March scopes in the 2.5-25X52 . Good scopes in a good compact size. I wish Nightforce would make the NX8 in a SFP !!!
Thanks again for your comments.

Well, you certainly have some nice scopes with the Marches. Which NX8 were you looking at?

 

[NCVarhtr]

I was looking at the 4-32X50....Good power range and in a compact package. However, all are with the FFP reticle...I just don't think that I can get comfortable with that arrangement.....

 

[Rob01]

ckrifles, I don't have mulitple stadia lines in my scopes. I use either a simple crosshair or the Double Dot in some of the Nightforce scopes. I agree completely that it is so simple to just dial up or down . I suspect that almost all serious shooters today have a quality range finder, either in their Binocular or as a seperate unit, and that dialing is the way to go. I just can't fully appreciate the value of a first FP Scope.

The scope focal plain has nothing to do with rangefinders or binos. It comes down to wanting to use the reticle for holds. If you like a crosshair and dial everything then just go SFP. If you planned to use the reticle for hold overs, unders, movers, fast corrections etc then get a FFP scope.

 

[KY_Windage]

If I am shooting where I need a rangefinder in order to know what correction to apply, then I am probably shooting at max power anyway (where my clicks and hashmarks are synched), which means my hashmarks are correct. I usually prefer to dial in the elevation corrections, but I could use the reticle if I wanted to.

Where that might not be true would be where the mirage is bad. Okay, no big deal -- I can turn to half of max and know that each hashmark covers twice as much as if I were at full power. But I seldom have to do that because I seldom shoot when the mirage is so bad I cannot shoot at max power. Or if I am then it is target shooting where I have plenty of time to calculate and dial.

I frequently use my scope to scan for animals -- which may be just an ear sticking out of a bush. I like to be able to scan at low power without my reticle collapsing into ball of twine right in the middle of my picture, and the fat parts of the outer reticle being drawn in toward the center and blocking a bunch of my picture. I much prefer SFP and very thin reticles, like the MOAR-T. If hunting and the light is bad I can just pop on the illumination.

The NX8's are nice but NF makes a bunch of great SFP scopes, too. The weight-to-power ration is better on the NX8s, but it is not night and day. The NXS 5.5-22x50 is a great scope. So are the ATACR's, and the 8-32x56 NXS.

No FFP for me, thanks.

 

[Beltfire]

I always prefer NF scopes, but for long-range shooting between FFP vs SFP I much prefer SFP. I like it because the reticle isn't too thin at low power. I've never faced any problem to finding the crosshairs and the always accurately calibrated reticle is something I really appreciate and have used.

 

[Rob01]

SFP is not always accurately calibrated. It is only true on one power in the power range. FFP is accurate on any power.

 

[Richard Coody]

For.ranging to be accurate you have to know the.actual size of the.target being.ranged. a miscalculation there shows up big time at 600 to 1000 yrds.

FFP was designed for.the military. A large target of.a.known size. Man.

I would like to see the.proof about.FFP ranging. Some western mountainside with rocks and boulders at various distances. put the scope against the Leica rangmaster

 

[Rob01]

Reticle ranging in any scope is a dying art and unless practiced is tough. Has nothing to do with mil or moa or even ffp or sfp as all can do it. Just certain combos can make it a little easier. Actual reticle plays a lot into it also.

 

[SSL]

One thing not mentioned: On the only FFP scope I've used, as the power is increased, the extended markings disappear, Though it is nice to see maybe 20 or so sub-tension marks below the main cross-hair at the lowest power, most of them vanish when scope power is at maximum.

 

[Rob01]

One thing not mentioned: On the only FFP scope I've used, as the power is increased, the extended markings disappear, Though it is nice to see maybe 20 or so sub-tension marks below the main cross-hair at the lowest power, most of them vanish when scope power is at maximum.

Well they have to to a point as the reticle is staying with it's proper subtentions. You will still usually have 6-8 mils of hold over in FFP scopes on highest power. That's a good deal of hold over.

 

[Willie]

The 1st vs 2nd focal plane argument always ends up at a stand off. Depends on what you like and how you shoot.

I shoot two March 3-24x52s, 2 Leupold Mark 5s, and one each NX8 and Sightron Slll. They are all FFP and are totally reliable in all aspects, up to now. They are all on my favorite rifles.

Over the last 6-7 years, I've grown to really like FFP over the 2nd FP. I think the advancement of top glass, lighter weights and multiple great reticle options are my reasons to switch over. That and not worrying about magnification settings.

I have some really nice 2nd FP scopes, but most are back in the box now. I know I can't change anyone's opinion on which to use, so this is just another fruitless post.

 

[SSL]

Well they have to to a point as the reticle is staying with it's proper subtentions. You will still usually have 6-8 mils of hold over in FFP scopes on highest power. That's a good deal of hold over.

Absolutely true. That's where dialing is so important. I just didn't want anyone thinking that all those lovely hash marks were going to be useful at maximum power with FFP. Both styles are useful and it's all just a matter of preference.

 

[Rob01]

Yup you have them in a sfp but depending on where the reticle subtends correctly you may not be able to use them or you will have to do some figuring as to their value at that point.