First Focal Plane Vs Second Focal Plane

[SSL]

Yup you have them in a sfp but depending on where the reticle subtends correctly you may not be able to use them or you will have to do some figuring as to their value at that point.

That's where a good app like Strelok can really help with SFP, once verified. My flip-up scope caps have yardage notes I made for both a mid-power and maximum settings for each of my scopes. Helps in the field when you have no time to dial in and keeps you pretty close, but those values are only good for those power settings. Not as good as dialing in precisely, but faster in a pinch.

 

[Rob01]

Yup that's why I like FFP. No need for notes.

 

[wkdickinson]

My biggest complaint with FFP scopes is that the reticle becomes to "thick" as the power increases and often obscures your aiming point. But then again, all my shooting is done at known distances. If you are playing the PRC game, then I can see why you might be willing to sacrifice sighting precision for easy/fast hold-off.

 

[Rob01]

The FFP reticle covers the same amount of the target at its lowest power as it’s highest. That is what it is in that the reticle is always properly sub tended. Whether it’s too thick or not comes down to the reticle design and not the focal plane.

 

[SSL]

Yup that's why I like FFP. No need for notes.

I just picked up an entry level 6-24X FFP last week to see if I like it before spending big bucks. Mounted and ready to go if this darned wind will stop! I agree that not having to look at my notes would be pretty nice, especially in the field. Granted, it isn't in the same realm as the more expensive ones, but it will give me an idea whether I like the concept enough. Had a spare rifle needing a scope anyway. Good way to try it out.

 

[K9TXS]

I sold my 2 FFP scopes and went back to 2nd FP. As a person gets older, for many their eye vision changes among other parts of their body. For me, I wear glasses and have a double astigmatism along with eye floaters. When the reticle is small the FFP reticle is no good at all for me. My two main scopes on my rat rifles are NF SHV with the MOAR reticle. I can always see the reticle without issues. Using this reticle, I can do a quick calculation when it is set on different power ranges and make the shot. It's very easy to do and for me it is just as quick as using the FFP. I seldom shoot past 350.

 

[STOMP442]

Unless you plan on doing your ranging with the reticle the FFP is useless in my opinion. I hate how small the reticle is on low power and how huge it is at max power. The simpler the better for me. a nice crosshair that I can see at any power with a few hash marks for wind holds and I'm good to go.

 

[Rob01]

FFP has nothing to do with ranging. That is the old myth that keeps getting repeated. It has to do with using the reticle for holds and corrections on any power. Ranging is way down the list.

Also when you buy any scope you need to choose the use and power range. If you buy a 5-25x FFP and plan to use it mostly at 5x then you chose the wrong scope. You can use them there but plan on just having a crosshair. Most scopes in that range with FFP can have the reticle marks be used down to about 8x. Been suing them for many years and have used the marks down to there many times. Usually if you are down on 5-7x then you are there for closer targets and needing FOV and the reticle marks aren't needed.

And again, FFP reticles cover no more of the target at it's highest power than at any other power in it's range. That is the way they work. If it's too thick at max power than that is a reticle design flaw and not due to FFP. Example. The Vortex FFP 7C reticle has a main chrosshair line that is .03 mils wide. At 1000 yards that is about 1.1". That will not cover most targets. It also has a center dot that is .04 mils or about 1.5" in diameter at 1000 yards. Again probably not going to cover most any target people will shoot at that range.And it covers that amount of the target whether it is at 5x or 27x. It just appears to the eye to cover less at lower powers.

I get FFP isn't for everyone and for every use but correct info needs to be out there for people wanting to make a decision.

 

[copperking81]

Go FFP. As already cited, if you have a target reticle in a SFP scope, it's only calibrated at one power setting. It's true that the reticle in a FFP scope scales to the target, but I've never personally found that to be problematic and frankly, I don't even notice.

Train with FFP properly and you'll never want to go back to SFP. I don't even consider purchasing them anymore.

 

[copperking81]

FFP has nothing to do with ranging. That is the old myth that keeps getting repeated. It has to do with using the reticle for holds and corrections on any power. Ranging is way down the list.

Exactly this.

Corrections become stupid simple with FFP and you don't have to worry about whether you're on the correct power setting. The reticle in a FFP is a ruler and you use it just like you would any other ruler. It's that simple.

Throw a spotting scope with an FFP target reticle in the mix, like a Leupold MK4 spotter, and you'll be firing on all eight.

 

[Rem06]

Go FFP. As already cited, if you have a target reticle in a SFP scope, it's only calibrated at one power setting. It's true that the reticle in a FFP scope scales to the target, but I've never personally found that to be problematic and frankly, I don't even notice.

Train with FFP properly and you'll never want to go back to SFP. I don't even consider purchasing them anymore.

I went FFP a few years back and wished i would have used FFP from the start! we mostly hunt from a box and holdover is sooooo much faster than trying to dial in the dark( it is alot darker in the box)! early am and late evening when you need to turn power down, holdover works on all power. I shoot GH matches too. FFP all the way for me.
while you are dialing, your eye is off the tgt also. not me.

 

[Rem06]

I'm interested in the Nightforce NS8 scope and I've never owned a first FP scope. I don't like the idea of the reticle increasing as you turn the power ring up. I would use the scope for Target and Hunting. What has been your experience with First FP scopes What are the advantages and disadvantages? I would really appreciate so real insight about the two Focal Planes....Thanks in advance....George

i have a 6.5x24x50 GEN 1 and GEN 2 5x25x50 PST and my buddy shot a doe at under 50yds with it. I asked him if he had a problem with that FFP?
NOPE was the reply.

 

[CharlieNC]

There are reasons ALL PRS and tactical match shooters use ffp exclusively.

 

[Dead Eye]

Field & Cave. Thank you very much for taking the time to share a logical expaination to my question. Almost all of my shooting (even in a box stand) is from a solid rest with sand bags. With the use of range finding Binoculars, specific distances are now available where that was not the case just a few years ago. I like the size of the NX8 scope and I like Nightforce scopes. I have four March scopes in the 2.5-25X52 . Good scopes in a good compact size. I wish Nightforce would make the NX8 in a SFP !!!
Thanks again for your comments.

I have heard Nightforce is bringing out NX8 FFP scopes possibly later this year.

 

[bluestreakrem]

I agree with what a magazine article stated about first and second plane reticles.

First plane is best for magnification powers above 10x. Anything below 10x you will have a hard time seeing the tiny reticle against brush or tree backgrounds. Normally will come with an adjustable parallax/focus which you'll need at the higher power levels and greater distances those high powers will be used at. I personally have never wanted for more or used more than 12x when hunting except varmit hunting. A fixed parallax second focal plane (SFP) reticle/scope will handle that hunting requirement. If you go to the field with something more than 14x and a FFP reticle, you will probably wish you had less when your quarry walks out at typical hunting distance which is well within 500 yards. Most people can't shoot well enough to place a shot accurately beyond 400 yards and shouldn't attempt it IMHO. Leave the FFP, high magnification scopes for Long Range Target shooting.

Second plane with a fixed parallax of 100 yards is best for hunting within 500 yards. In typical (most ethical) hunting applications, an adjustable parallax/focus is not required or wanted because parallax error is not an issue at those ranges. A fixed parallax of 100 yards will suffice out to 500 yards for 'minute of deer' accuracy. I hate having to focus a scope in the field when hunting. Takes too much time to focus and you can't do it accurately or fast enough if holding the rifle off-hand or un-supported. Adjustable parallax and focus knobs require very minute adjustment to obtain the accurate parallax error correction and a crisp focus. That takes a lot of time and effort. Who has the time for that when 'ol big' with a drop tine walks out across the sendero?
Before someone can focus their FFP on their quarry.............I will have already shot the animal and have started walking toward it to skin it. Been there and done that.
FFP scopes are great for compettiion and bench shooting (I have many of them) but are a distant second choice for hunting in the field at typical (ethical) distances.

 

[Rob01]

Turn on the illumination and you can see the reticle fine below 10x.

Also depends on the scope and use. Just got a FFP 1-10x on an AR and works great. Well designed.

As for parallax, nothing says you can’t set it at 100 and go.

 

[Intell]

I have an NX8 1-8 on my deer gun and love it. While moving and on stand it stays on 1x for quick shots and is like an aim point, very bright for day time use.
If I see a deer a little further out I have time to turn it up.
I also have a FFP U.S. Optics for coyote hunting with a PVS 30.
No dialing is the only advantage I see to a FFP scope especially at night when I can't see the turrets, if you know your dope it's faster to use the rectical.
On two of my long range guns I have razors in FFP, but I just dial them because I have time and not rushed.

 

[Clark]

My biggest complaint with FFP scopes is that the reticle becomes to "thick" as the power increases and often obscures your aiming point....

I have (2) FFP scopes, a USO 1.8x10x37 and an IOR 2x10x42, the reticles get so thin they disappear on low power. That makes the scopes unusable for big game hunting.

I am 69.
I was at the eye doctor today:
20/25 -2 in both left and right eyes without glasses
10 pressure in left eye
15 pressure in right eye
I got 4 out of 4 in high contrast peripheral vision with either eye.
I have to go back for a low contrast test. If the right eye is declining, they will do laser or something.

 

[Steve Donlon]

I got a Nightforce NX8 4-32X50 for one of my Long Range 30-06 rifles when they first came out and really like it. It is my first FFP scope. I have a NXS 8-32X56 SFP scope on another rifle and like the NX8 better. The cross hairs are bigger on the FFP at 32 power but much smaller at the lower powers. If your eyes are not to good, it's hard to see the retical on 4 power for me. I only use 12 power and up, so it' fine but that is a draw back IMO. Both are moar style retical but the NX8 has the center illuminated. I'm glad I have both. I think the SFP scopes are easier to use in some ways because the retical is bigger at lower powers. You need to be more serious about shooting to use a FFP scope from my point of view, but that may not be relevant. You defiantly need to try one out first because they are different.