tom
Gold $$ Contributor
I think you're referencing the knob for the clamp, witch is part of the stand. I had to look at my own picture, and that's all I see that would be black.
Tom
Sorting bullets, brass, and primers.
- Thread starter Mulligan
- Start date
I think you're referencing the knob for the clamp, witch is part of the stand. I had to look at my own picture, and that's all I see that would be black.
Tom
Mulligan,
Using water is sort of standardized. You can weight the volume of water (known density)
Results = results of others.
Using a fluid, any fluid, can show volume variations locally but won't compare to other data you may see. You can measure the volume of the fluid added but weighing is usually more precise. 91% Isopropyl has a density less than water. To get volume from weight you need to know density. 33.54gn of 91% IPA would be how much volume?
Also, with an additive to reduce surface tension you can eliminate a concave or convex meniscus and get better accuracy.
Using water is sort of standardized. You can weight the volume of water (known density)
Results = results of others.
Using a fluid, any fluid, can show volume variations locally but won't compare to other data you may see. You can measure the volume of the fluid added but weighing is usually more precise. 91% Isopropyl has a density less than water. To get volume from weight you need to know density. 33.54gn of 91% IPA would be how much volume?
Also, with an additive to reduce surface tension you can eliminate a concave or convex meniscus and get better accuracy.
Last edited:
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
- Primers: Sort by weight then sort cases by primer seating depth or use a tool that measures primer crush
I have been digesting all the comments and suggestions on this thread. There really is a lot here. I have never considered sorting cases by primer seating depth or measuring primer crush.
I have and use a 21st Century primer seater and if something doesn’t feel right, its used for a fouler. I do, to the best of my ability uniform my primer pockets using a Sinclair carbide uniformer.
What do the targets show, and what tools do folks use to sort and take such measurements?
CW
I have been digesting all the comments and suggestions on this thread. There really is a lot here. I have never considered sorting cases by primer seating depth or measuring primer crush.
I have and use a 21st Century primer seater and if something doesn’t feel right, its used for a fouler. I do, to the best of my ability uniform my primer pockets using a Sinclair carbide uniformer.
What do the targets show, and what tools do folks use to sort and take such measurements?
CW
Doing all the weighing and precise seating of primers may show up in good conditions. My long answer as to why follows:
In my first post I explained how I didn't do anywhere near the sorting in the mid 2000s that I do know, and yet I shot five screamer groups and set two club agg records at 1000 yds one year. While those groups are not as good now as they were then, I think most LR BR shooters would tell you the LG groups between 3.5 and 4" and aggs under 5" would still win many matches today.
The reason for that is LR BR is a slave to the conditions. No amount of tuning, sorting, and prepping can overcome poor to mediocre conditions. It's only when very good conditions occur that all the intensive sorting show up. Good conditions happen what, 10-20% of the time?
Last October I competed at the NBRSA Long Range Regionals in White City, OR. The day prior to the 1000 yd portion I was able to do some fine tuning of my load at 1000 yds. That day with my 6BRA I shot three consecutive 3-shot groups under 2". They ranged from 1.6 to 1.9". I thought I was well tuned and was going to do very well.
The next two days I shot six five-shot groups and the average was just under 5.4"--which was only good for third place. I was very disappointed, but that is what conditions do. I doubt I would have shot my three sub 2" groups on tuning day without doing all the sorting I do, including the weighing and precise seating of primers. On the two match days I doubt my primer work had any effect.
In the LR BR game, especially at 1000 yds, whoever has the best tuning and sorting usually does the best in good conditions. In average conditions, the finer points don't make as much difference.
Sometimes it can be as simple as the shooter on bench 4 happened to shoot a few seconds later than everyone else and got lucky and caught a good condition that others missed. At the one match I got to shoot this year, I drew second relay (like normal for me) and a storm blew through. Still, I managed to shoot a 1.5" group with my 300 WSM which was small group of the match. All my other groups were all over the place. I just happened to catch a momentary good condition and my rifle shot close to its potential.
So if you want to compete, have fun, and have a good chance in the majority of conditions don't worry about primers. If you want to be competitive in good conditions, do everything you can.
Since I had a 12 year gap in my competing, I am now only in my fifth season. There are others here who have been at it more than I and I would defer to them. Guys like: @dkhunt14, @dmoran, @Jet, @tom, @WAMBO, @Bill Johnston, and some newer shooters who are doing well like @newbieshooter and @Keith Faller. That is by no means a complete list, just a few of the guys I know of and/or have shot with that post here.
The tool I like for primer seating is the K&M Primer Gauge. I just started using it and my ES at 200 yd tuning seem consistently a little lower that when I just seated by feel then sorted by measuring. I can now prime two cases a minute the the K&M Primer Gauge. That is slow but since I don't have to do any other sorting and measuring I think the overall time spent is similar to my earlier method.
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/7440
In my first post I explained how I didn't do anywhere near the sorting in the mid 2000s that I do know, and yet I shot five screamer groups and set two club agg records at 1000 yds one year. While those groups are not as good now as they were then, I think most LR BR shooters would tell you the LG groups between 3.5 and 4" and aggs under 5" would still win many matches today.
The reason for that is LR BR is a slave to the conditions. No amount of tuning, sorting, and prepping can overcome poor to mediocre conditions. It's only when very good conditions occur that all the intensive sorting show up. Good conditions happen what, 10-20% of the time?
Last October I competed at the NBRSA Long Range Regionals in White City, OR. The day prior to the 1000 yd portion I was able to do some fine tuning of my load at 1000 yds. That day with my 6BRA I shot three consecutive 3-shot groups under 2". They ranged from 1.6 to 1.9". I thought I was well tuned and was going to do very well.
The next two days I shot six five-shot groups and the average was just under 5.4"--which was only good for third place. I was very disappointed, but that is what conditions do. I doubt I would have shot my three sub 2" groups on tuning day without doing all the sorting I do, including the weighing and precise seating of primers. On the two match days I doubt my primer work had any effect.
In the LR BR game, especially at 1000 yds, whoever has the best tuning and sorting usually does the best in good conditions. In average conditions, the finer points don't make as much difference.
Sometimes it can be as simple as the shooter on bench 4 happened to shoot a few seconds later than everyone else and got lucky and caught a good condition that others missed. At the one match I got to shoot this year, I drew second relay (like normal for me) and a storm blew through. Still, I managed to shoot a 1.5" group with my 300 WSM which was small group of the match. All my other groups were all over the place. I just happened to catch a momentary good condition and my rifle shot close to its potential.
So if you want to compete, have fun, and have a good chance in the majority of conditions don't worry about primers. If you want to be competitive in good conditions, do everything you can.
Since I had a 12 year gap in my competing, I am now only in my fifth season. There are others here who have been at it more than I and I would defer to them. Guys like: @dkhunt14, @dmoran, @Jet, @tom, @WAMBO, @Bill Johnston, and some newer shooters who are doing well like @newbieshooter and @Keith Faller. That is by no means a complete list, just a few of the guys I know of and/or have shot with that post here.
The tool I like for primer seating is the K&M Primer Gauge. I just started using it and my ES at 200 yd tuning seem consistently a little lower that when I just seated by feel then sorted by measuring. I can now prime two cases a minute the the K&M Primer Gauge. That is slow but since I don't have to do any other sorting and measuring I think the overall time spent is similar to my earlier method.
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/7440
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
Nicely done,
I appreciate the time, thought, and effort you put into this reply.
Thank you
CW
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
I think that is exactly the issue.
With this Sinclair comparator thingy, I have to clean it with a Q-tip very often and delicately place the bullet into the comparator.
CW
Are you using a mechanical or electronic gauge with the Sinclair set up? I’ve both and concluded the gauges wandered after finding inconsistent b to o measurements on the same bullet. Frustrating in that it sows doubt about the accuracy of the effort.
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
I also have both.
Recently I acquired a digital indicator from iGaging. It appears to be much more solid than either of the indicators I used in the past.
CW
Kind of got out of control on a wet weekend so I decided to sort primers by weight. These primers will likely last my shift. Only load primers when I have 50 in one bin or a max of 2 side by side bins. Sorry, my picture is up side down.
Anal at its best,
Ben
Anal at its best,
Ben
I’m coming in a little late to the party! Anyone actual test different weight bullets to see if it makes a difference?
That’s a three shot group At 100 yards with two 105 Hammers and one 103 Hammer! It measures around a .180. The bullet to the far left is 103, the bullet to the right and a little lower are the 105s!
Bart
That’s a three shot group At 100 yards with two 105 Hammers and one 103 Hammer! It measures around a .180. The bullet to the far left is 103, the bullet to the right and a little lower are the 105s!
Bart
Bart,
A trend would probably take more than 3 shots to nail down a difference but it does show a tendency.
A trend would probably take more than 3 shots to nail down a difference but it does show a tendency.
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