• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Sorting bullets, brass, and primers.

Mulligan

Silver $$ Contributor
Faced with more time at home and less at the range for a few weeks, decided to get all my components ready for the 2020 shooting season. I know I should have done that last winter... I didn't.
I have tested all three and can measure good improvement from all at 600 yards on target.

I hope to start shooting 1000 yard BR this year. Is there more or different sorting that I should consider for the 1000 yard venue?

I sort
Primers by weight
Bullets by BTO and/or OAL depending on what testing teaches me
brass by weight or volume, again depending on testing.

Thanks
CW
 
Serious question, primers, why? How many components are in a primer? 3-4? There could be such variance to each component, really, has there been any testing done on this and please, I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I just want to know. I don't think it would help my discipline (UBR 100 yards to 300 meters) but you never know.
Thanks!
 
Serious question, primers, why? How many components are in a primer? 3-4? There could be such variance to each component, really, has there been any testing done on this and please, I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I just want to know. I don't think it would help my discipline (UBR 100 yards to 300 meters) but you never know.
Thanks!
I attached a small test I completed using my PPC.
Over 20 FPS difference base on primer weight may be enough to push you out of tune???
CW
 

Attachments

while it looks like I may not work, testing shows it does for long range.
statistics say it is not 100%, but improvement is documented.
Serious question, primers, why? How many components are in a primer? 3-4? There could be such variance to each component, really, has there been any testing done on this and please, I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I just want to know. I don't think it would help my discipline (UBR 100 yards to 300 meters) but you never know.
Thanks!
 
Sometimes I have found it to make a difference, I cannot explain why, but it does....sometimes.
Also, if trimming or pointing, sorting by OAL help with consistency.
CW
Do you sort bbto 1st, followed by batching in length?
 
Do you sort bbto 1st, followed by batching in length?
If I am pointing or trimming, I do not think it matters which you do first as long as you do both.
I sort most of my bullets BTO...... not necessarily the diameter of the bore. Sometimes it helps to try different diameters and see what works. But I am a hack at this........ just learning.

CW
 
Faced with more time at home and less at the range for a few weeks, decided to get all my components ready for the 2020 shooting season. I know I should have done that last winter... I didn't.
I have tested all three and can measure good improvement from all at 600 yards on target.

I hope to start shooting 1000 yard BR this year. Is there more or different sorting that I should consider for the 1000 yard venue?

I sort
Primers by weight
Bullets by BTO and/or OAL depending on what testing teaches me
brass by weight or volume, again depending on testing.

Thanks
CW

Welcome to the dark side! We LR BR shooters sort many things many different ways and each person does things a little differently. Here are some of the sorting options.

- Primers: Sort by weight then sort cases by primer seating depth or use a tool that measures primer crush

- Bullets: Sort by seating ogive and chamber ogive, though many only sort base to ogive as defined by the a Hornady or similar tool. Many sort them on a Juenke or a Bullet Genie as well. Custom bullets like Bart's are more consistent that mass produced bullets like Bergers

- Brass: Some sort into 1 grain groups, some sort into .1 grain groups, some sort by internal volume (very hard to do well), some don't worry about it since internal volumes are usually very consistent. One highly competitive shooter I know weight sorts after every firing. Another top shooter I know pin gauges the necks before seating bullets and sorts them that way.

- Sizing: I measure every case shoulder after sizing and will sort them that way. The way I set up my die I can usually get them all within .001", that is assuming I am consistent enough in my measuring feel to have that level of accuracy. I don't know if everyone else does it that way.

- Seating pressure: Many if not most use a Hydro Seater and sort rounds based on seating pressure. A variance in seating pressure often changes seating depth slightly. I also measure every bullet after seating. I don't know if everyone else measures each bullet after seating.

- Most of us have a powder scale that can measure to the kernel of powder. That is more important for a 6 BRA than a 300 WSM.


Realize that the wind can overwhelm any of the sorting we do, and much of this sorting will only show up in very good conditions--which might be 10-20% of the time.

For perspective, when I competed in 1000 yd BR from 2005-2007, I didn't sort primers or check primer seating. I didn't measure seating force. I didn't sort bullets in any way. I measured powder on an RCBS 10-10 which was only accurate to .1 grains, which was fine for a 300 WSM, but not so great for a 6 BRA. I did separate brass into 1 grain sorts. With that level of sorting I manged to shoot 5 groups between 3.5" and 4" one year. Those were considered screamer groups then but don't make the cut now. My best three 5-shot group LG aggs were 4.71 and 4.91 back then, which were club records in Tucson at the time. Those groups and aggs would win many matches nowadays, but aren't so spectacular anymore.
 
I attached a small test I completed using my PPC.
Over 20 FPS difference base on primer weight may be enough to push you out of tune???
CW
Very impressive, you work in engineering? 25fps difference between the 2 pieces of brass also with the same weight primers. Did the 2 pieces appear to be the same specs? Just curious, dang nice work.
 
Welcome to the dark side! We LR BR shooters sort many things many different ways and each person does things a little differently. Here are some of the sorting options.

- Primers: Sort by weight then sort cases by primer seating depth or use a tool that measures primer crush

- Bullets: Sort by seating ogive and chamber ogive, though many only sort base to ogive as defined by the a Hornady or similar tool. Many sort them on a Juenke or a Bullet Genie as well. Custom bullets like Bart's are more consistent that mass produced bullets like Bergers

- Brass: Some sort into 1 grain groups, some sort into .1 grain groups, some sort by internal volume (very hard to do well), some don't worry about it since internal volumes are usually very consistent. One highly competitive shooter I know weight sorts after every firing. Another top shooter I know pin gauges the necks before seating bullets and sorts them that way.

- Sizing: I measure every case shoulder after sizing and will sort them that way. The way I set up my die I can usually get them all within .001", that is assuming I am consistent enough in my measuring feel to have that level of accuracy. I don't know if everyone else does it that way.

- Seating pressure: Many if not most use a Hydro Seater and sort rounds based on seating pressure. A variance in seating pressure often changes seating depth slightly. I also measure every bullet after seating. I don't know if everyone else measures each bullet after seating.

- Most of us have a powder scale that can measure to the kernel of powder. That is more important for a 6 BRA than a 300 WSM.


Realize that the wind can overwhelm any of the sorting we do, and much of this sorting will only show up in very good conditions--which might be 10-20% of the time.

For perspective, when I competed in 1000 yd BR from 2005-2007, I didn't sort primers or check primer seating. I didn't measure seating force. I didn't sort bullets in any way. I measured powder on an RCBS 10-10 which was only accurate to .1 grains, which was fine for a 300 WSM, but not so great for a 6 BRA. I did separate brass into 1 grain sorts. With that level of sorting I manged to shoot 5 groups between 3.5" and 4" one year. Those were considered screamer groups then but don't make the cut now. My best three 5-shot group LG aggs were 4.71 and 4.91 back then, which were club records in Tucson at the time. Those groups and aggs would win many matches nowadays, but aren't so spectacular anymore.
Good stuff,
Thanks
CW
 
Very impressive, you work in engineering? 25fps difference between the 2 pieces of brass also with the same weight primers. Did the 2 pieces appear to be the same specs? Just curious, dang nice work.

No, I'm just a wildland firefighter.

I initially did a very quick and easy test and then posted the results here on AS. I then asked for some guidance from the membership as to how to conduct the test so it was meaningful. I do not remember if the two pieces of brass were alike or not..... I still have them, maybe I will dig them out or go through my notes and check.

I am hoping to have time to run the same test again with my Dasher or 300WSM and see if the results are the same with a bigger powder charge.

CW
 
No, I'm just a wildland firefighter.

I initially did a very quick and easy test and then posted the results here on AS. I then asked for some guidance from the membership as to how to conduct the test so it was meaningful. I do not remember if the two pieces of brass were alike or not..... I still have them, maybe I will dig them out or go through my notes and check.

I am hoping to have time to run the same test again with my Dasher or 300WSM and see if the results are the same with a bigger powder charge.

CW
Awesome, looked well thought out
 
That is actually quite impressive!! Good job, if you do a more extensive test let us know!
About 2 or 3 weeks ago they was an extensive thread on this, you should read it. Lots of good info there. I have sorted about 5000 primers the last 2 years. Average difference per box is about 6 pieces of Varget. I weigh and load to 1 piece of Varget. Would not make sense to give up your powder weighing accuracy by not weighing primers. Maybe not so important at short range especially if you just dump from a measure. I want to go to the line knowing there is nothing more I can do to insure the accuracy of my rifle. Now it's up to me. The thread is just a few below this one, Vertical Dispertion of Primers is the title.
 
Clay,

Bullets are pretty simple, group them base to ogive, and then base to seater stem. This, if nothing else, gives consistent seated length to land relationship.

Base to tip is often overlooked, I sort this regardless, as it's about BC consistency. George Macdonald makes a great tool to go with your indicator stand. I love my I gaging 2" travel digital that @dmoran found online a couple years back. I never move my bullet and measure(sort) all 3 things.

20190416_175608_copy_600x800.jpg
20190417_185524_copy_600x800.jpg



I must admit I've given up on Roy's for the two ogive readings. They basically are good enough to check your, and your toolings' limitations lol.a simple check of your seated match rounds will identify any "accidents".


Tom
 
Last edited:
I guess I should add diameter to the list for bullets, as there are still a few running factory bullets. And very successful when sorted diligently. And don't mix boxes lol.


Tom
 
Tom
How can you take all three measurements without moving the bullet using George’s tools? I’m trying to visualize this and can’t. I have George’s tool and have to change bases.

thanks

Rich
 
Rich,
I have 3 top sections for it. ;)

Or you can flip one over for length.

Tom
 
Last edited:

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
166,241
Messages
2,215,171
Members
79,506
Latest member
Hunt99elk
Back
Top