Incident at range

[Ralph Littlefield]

I volunteer as an RSO at one of our state's shooting ranges and want to share an incident that happened last week. It is a real wake up call for me. It terrifies me to think about how fast it happened.


Dad handed off a loaded gun to 12 year old son and the lad's finger went went right to the trigger. 4 or 5 rounds into the ground right in front of him in the few seconds it took a RSO to get behind him and grab him by both arms. RSO gets him stopped and takes the gun away, hands it off to dad while he tries to settle the boy down (big mistake). Dad tries to decock and lets another round go.

No one hurt but lots of RSO's, including me, shook up. I was not there, but am very sobered by it.

Do not let frequent gun handling lull you into complacency.

 

[rammac]

Several years ago, I too was an RSO and Range Master. We had another range a few miles from ours and one day we were told about an incident that happened at the other range.

A father and his son were shooting, the father handed the handgun to his son (15 years old with physical disabilities). The son tried to sit down at the shooting bench and fell, he was struck in the head with a .45 ACP bullet.

It was a tragic thing but in many of these cases the problem is that the trainer has never been taught how to teach others to shoot. As an instructor you need to be close enough to actually manhandle the shooter if he makes a mistake, you need to grab the gun and control it, even if you hurt the shooter in the process. I took my RSO duties very seriously and learned very quickly that most ranges have too few safety officers. Nobody can possibly handle more than two shooters at a time, things go wrong so fast that you need to be within no more than two steps from the shooter in order to have any chance of intervening. All RSOs should be stationed behind the shooters and watch them continuously, not wander up and down the line and shoot the crap with people as they work. The Range Master makes the calls for the line and works with customers. That's why you need a Range Master and several RSOs per shooting line.

 

[joshb]

Do not let frequent gun handling lull you into complacency.[/QUOTE]

Do not let frequent gun handling lull you into complacency.

Extra especially when youngsters are involved!!
I had a mentally disabled step son. With careful, cautious training he became my best shooting buddy! It was fun to watch him explain the safety rules to newbies!

 

[Daddymac]

While unloading a hunting rifle, I ignored the number one gun safety rule and shot a hole in my truck door, that was 25 years ago and I still don't know with 100% certainty what happened. It was a older model Remington 700, I laid it on the truck seat and flipped the safety off to open the bolt and it discharged, the only thing that I can think could have happened was that something on the seat stuck in the trigger guard and put pressure on the trigger. I was absolutely horrified that I was so stupid and could have killed someone because I did not have my muzzle in a safe direction.

I have no trouble sharing that story, especially if talking to someone at the range or on a hunt about their gun handling.

 

[Lonny in ID]

Thanks for the wake-up stories gentlemen. It is easy to get complacent.

I had an incident much like Daddymac's, only I didn't have the discharge. But it did bother the hell out of me thinking what could have happened. At the least, a hole in a door. Worse case, somebody dead...

 

[K22]

At one club I belong a guy shot himself in the leg playing "Quick Draw McGraw". I wasn't present since I don't shoot pistol on that club's range - too dangerous - saw this coming - too many Navy Seal want to be's without any training.

At another club where I belong a guy sliced his thumb to the bone when he placed his non shooting hand too high over the back of the grip on a compact 45 ACP and the slide sliced his thumb. I was there for this one - the guy bleed like a stuffed pig - luckily I had a first aid kit in the truck and got the bleeding stop by apply a pressure bandage until I could get professional help for the guy.

None us are not immune to accidents - familiar sometimes breeds complacency - we all need to refresh our thoughts on safe gun handling practices.

 

[Oso]

Our club is now considering changes in procedures that would include all new member to prove competency both safety and shooting with each class of firearm they plan to use. This will have to wait until next year to be formally adopted by Club as dictated by charter. As an RSO, I expect that every interaction will result in a gun pointed at me. This is how I approach any interaction and prepare accordingly. I am especially wary of minors, pistol bays (everyone trying to be dynamic and fast without any training), and everyone on the 50 yard line (95% of all modern sporting rifle/pistol owners never shoot further). I am not prejudice against any specific weapon type or shooter, but there are some standouts that seem to be the magnet for problems.

You just have to plan for the worst and expect a shooter to turn around to face you while they simultaneously forget that he/she is still holding a loaded weapon. After RSO for IDPA, you get comfortable being close. I prefer to interact with our shooters really closely... as in close enough that when they start to turn around with a gun or accidentally point gun in wrong direction I can easily block or redirect their position to keep me, other shooters, and themselves safe.

Our club allows a member to bring up to 6 guests (spectators) of which 2 can be shooting. My interpretation of this rule is that there can only be 2 shooters, and the member is now in charge of overseeing his quests. When it involves minors my preference is an adult designated to directly oversee the minors. I always put eyeballs on minors and their adult to see if they know what they are doing and also that the adult is exercising appropriate level of focus and concern on safety and actions of minor. I am constantly amazed when I encounter shooters who are focused on making Videos and Selfies. When was last time you walked into a shooting bay to find a 10 year old holding an Iphone standing in front of line of fire so that the group of 5 shooters can all get captured shooting at same time?! Only one answer for that level of stupidity...tear up their membership.

If you are an RSO then you should also have a trauma kit of your own that includes at least two (2) tourniquettes, Israeli Z bandages, Anti-clot, etc. The 1st tourniquette is for you.

 

[Bojo]

I myself had a accidental discharge.
1998/99 timeframe at the red roof in rt19 iat the old PA turnpike on/off area. Jennings 25 auto. Went to unload it.
Gun goes bang. Ruined a brand new 2 days earlier polo shirt and pair of Levi's, slug laid on the reinforced bottom of my gym bag.
Miraculously now one called or showed up. It was middle of the week and my room faced directly towards the turnpike. It was summer and the room stunk of spent gunpowder so bad.
I had to fan the door back and forth just to move the air around.
I was so embarrassed at what happened that it took many years for me to talk about it...
Now I use it as a talking point tool for others when talking gun saftey.
I still own that piece of shit but no longer carry it with a loaded chamber. It is solely my canoeing/kayaking dry bag gun.

 

[DirtySteve]

Some folks should not be allowed to breathe let alone be near a gun.... Just sayin..

 

[338 dude]

While unloading a hunting rifle, I ignored the number one gun safety rule and shot a hole in my truck door, that was 25 years ago and I still don't know with 100% certainty what happened. It was a older model Remington 700, I laid it on the truck seat and flipped the safety off to open the bolt and it discharged, the only thing that I can think could have happened was that something on the seat stuck in the trigger guard and put pressure on the trigger. I was absolutely horrified that I was so stupid and could have killed someone because I did not have my muzzle in a safe direction.

I have no trouble sharing that story, especially if talking to someone at the range or on a hunt about their gun handling.

It’s called a Remington moment and happens more often than you think my wife did the same thing with her 270 I am always on her about safety when she turned around her face was white as a ghost and showed me and said see the safety is still on she touched the bolt to unload it and it went off and shot a hole through my shed wall the gun sat in the Safe for two years and it is the 65 284 I have today the only thing Remington is the bolt body and the action body everything else was changed I got her a new Tika

 

[SEGARE]

At a State owned range about 15 years ago- sighting in for deer season when the next bench over sent one through the roof. I couldn't pack up fast enough...never been back.

 

[Straightshooter1]

So true, one should never be complacent about good safe gun handling.

The story reminds me of the one incident I ever had when I was a high school teen one summer my uncle and I was shooting some clay pigeons in the field behind our house. We began returning to the field for a second round after lunch and as we walked though our vegetable garden to the field, my uncle handed me his double barrel shotgun and I put a couple shells in and when I closed the breach both barrels went off into the ground 5 feet in front of me (Uncle was at my side). Uncle kinda glared at me and said I should be careful about putting my finger(s) on the trigger until ready to fire. Well, as I told him, I didn't have my finger anywhere near the trigger. So, he took the gun from me and put a couple shell into the breach and when he closed it, both barrels when off again (he had it pointed out towards the field). Well, we both new then there was a problem with the trigger and had an unsafe gun, so. . . that ended the days session of shooting. I remember it so vividly, I guess because of the shock of it along with I was just recovering from an illness and the shock left me feeling a little woozy. I've never been complacent about safe gun handling ever since (like almost 60 years now).

 

[mousegunner]

Saw a well advertised CCW instructor running a line with 10+ shooters. Just him and one range/safety/helper with him.

As a LEO instructor we had rules on the ratio of shooters to instructors. I knew the shooters on the line had training with safe handling techniques and we went over it every time at the range without exception.

However civilian shooters are a whole another animal and you don't truly know the skill set of who shows up for their CCW class. How can you safely run 10+ shooters with 2 people?! I was told by another instructor when you teach civilians wear your body armor, some of those people are scary!

 

[KMart]

We live in a time that young shooters and new shooters do not grow up the way I and my father did. We had guns, period. Guns were tools and we had to learn the safe operation of those tools. They were farm implements when we butchered and harvesting tools when we killed squirrels, rabbits or deer for the table. Our parents, usually the father or grandfather, usually kept a close eye on us while we were learning. If you didn't follow their safety rules or were stupidly careless handling the tools, the punishment was usually quick and memorable. We would walk away saying, "I dang sure won't do that again".
Now we have grown adults that are coming to the range and they have no idea what they have in their hands or how to operate it. And, it seems that they, in a lot of cases, don't care to learn. If you confront them about their misdeeds, you have hurt their feelings. When I was learning nobody cared about my feelings. Things were quick and memorable.
I chastised a member for going down range and leaving the bolts closed on his AR during a cease fire. I asked why he failed to lock the bolts open. He informed me that he has owned these rifles for 2 years and there was no way to lock the bolts open. I had him pick up the rifle and follow my instructions to lock the bolt open. After making both rifles safe, he complained that I was rude and had embarrassed him in front of his 20 YO daughter

I'll get off my horse, now.

 

[msinc]

Someone needs to please explain to me how the "frequent gun handling" and "being lulled into complacency" have anything to do with {what can only be described as} an absolute idiot handing a loaded firearm {sounds like it was not even on safety} to a minor child that has obviously no safety training or even a clue how to conduct himself when in possession of a gun.
This story makes me think of the bunch of African Army guys that give a loaded AK-47 to that chimp and dance around laughing and making fun of the monkey....right up until he rips loose with several burst of automatic fire. All of a sudden the funs over.
I don't see why any range would allow any individual access that didn't at least have a hunters safety course card or other firearms training. I would never even consider working at such a place that allowed just anyone to shoot firearms simply because they exist.
I don't know about the rest of the world, but had the child shot someone in this state then the adult that provided him with the means to kill or maim would be charged criminally...and "this state" is one of the most communist, liberal, woke, tree hugging, democrat run states in the union.

Edit: google "chimp with an AK-47"....it really is hilarious.

 

[Papa Charlie]

These are definitely trying times. As stated above, too many people, young and old alike have grown up devoid of firearms and the knowledge base that is developed doing so. I have been a member of two different clubs here in my area. Had close calls with people too many times.

Had one time when we had called a cease fire so people could go down range to replace targets. While we must have had 10 people down range, one group decided to start playing with their AR at the firing line. I told them that they were not allowed to cross the line during a cease fire and further, handling a weapon while someone was down range, in front of their rifle was not acceptable. They asked me when that became a rule. My response, since the club opened back in the 40's.

I will avoid the range completely on Hunters Sight In Day, when the club range is open to the public. Damn scary and to add to the issue, too crowded. You can barely walk from one end of the line to the other. This is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Kevin57]

Someone needs to please explain to me how the "frequent gun handling" and "being lulled into complacency" have anything to do with {what can only be described as} an absolute idiot handing a loaded firearm {sounds like it was not even on safety} to a minor child that has obviously no safety training or even a clue how to conduct himself when in possession of a gun.
This story makes me think of the bunch of African Army guys that give a loaded AK-47 to that chimp and dance around laughing and making fun of the monkey....right up until he rips loose with several burst of automatic fire. All of a sudden the funs over.
I don't see why any range would allow any individual access that didn't at least have a hunters safety course card or other firearms training. I would never even consider working at such a place that allowed just anyone to shoot firearms simply because they exist.
I don't know about the rest of the world, but had the child shot someone in this state then the adult that provided him with the means to kill or maim would be charged criminally...and "this state" is one of the most communist, liberal, woke, tree hugging, democrat run states in the union.

Edit: google "chimp with an AK-47"....it really is hilarious.

I seldom post. But this post is rife with Crap and Nonsense.

How do you teach safe gun handling...with a stick?
Children are not Chimps.
The incidents did not involve a full auto AK.
Please do not work anywhere I shoot, your chosen, woke, liberal, communist, state has obviously infected you with the same idiotic attitudes.

In my state you can not get a Hunters safety card until you are 14. I guess we leave our children ignorant of safe gun handling until then.

Sadly accidents do happen no matter what rules are in place.

Kevin

 

[Kevin57]

FYI msinc, woke is not an adjective. Another idiotic made up term to describe another example of politically correct nitwittery.

Lets all choose our pronouns now.

Idiocy.

 

[INTJ]

View attachment 1165070
It’s called a Remington moment and happens more often than you think my wife did the same thing with her 270 I am always on her about safety when she turned around her face was white as a ghost and showed me and said see the safety is still on she touched the bolt to unload it and it went off and shot a hole through my shed wall the gun sat in the Safe for two years and it is the 65 284 I have today the only thing Remington is the bolt body and the action body everything else was changed I got her a new Tika

Many older Remington 700s, 721s, 722s, and the rest with the Walker trigger can have an issue with fire on safety release. Sadly there was at least one fatality. While trigger connector separation took much of the blame--which I question, the Remington trigger can be easily adjusted to be unsafe. However, so can the highly vaunted first generation M-70 trigger and many other kinds of triggers.

I had a fire on safety release with a Rem 700. All it resulted in was a missed buck. During my subsequent testing after the hunt I discovered something interesting.

It is very easy to have a finger in the trigger guard when releasing the safety on many kinds of rifles, but especially so on a Remington. If there is any pressure on the trigger when the safety is released the firing pin will fire. About half the people I tested (a very informal test) had an interesting trait. As they pushed forward with their thumb to release the safety, their hand rolled back and their finger hit the trigger......which caused the firing pin to fire. Of course, if I told them of they tendency then it wouldn't happen.

Also, I found that most people, when I handed them a rifle, grabbed it by the grip and put their finger in the trigger guard. Again, if I mentioned this they wouldn't do it. Which brings be back to the original point of the thread.

It is very comfortable to hold a rifle in a ready-to-shoot position with a finger on the trigger. We need to train ourselves not do do that. We have to consciously think about safe gun handling and remind our fellow shooters of that, regardless of our experience level.

I do not envy the task of ROs........

 

[hogpatrol]

We live in a time that young shooters and new shooters do not grow up the way I and my father did. We had guns, period. Guns were tools and we had to learn the safe operation of those tools. They were farm implements when we butchered and harvesting tools when we killed squirrels, rabbits or deer for the table. Our parents, usually the father or grandfather, usually kept a close eye on us while we were learning. If you didn't follow their safety rules or were stupidly careless handling the tools, the punishment was usually quick and memorable. We would walk away saying, "I dang sure won't do that again".
Now we have grown adults that are coming to the range and they have no idea what they have in their hands or how to operate it. And, it seems that they, in a lot of cases, don't care to learn. If you confront them about their misdeeds, you have hurt their feelings. When I was learning nobody cared about my feelings. Things were quick and memorable.
I chastised a member for going down range and leaving the bolts closed on his AR during a cease fire. I asked why he failed to lock the bolts open. He informed me that he has owned these rifles for 2 years and there was no way to lock the bolts open. I had him pick up the rifle and follow my instructions to lock the bolt open. After making both rifles safe, he complained that I was rude and had embarrassed him in front of his 20 YO daughter

I'll get off my horse, now.

If I had a dollar every time an AR or AK bolt was closed when people started downrange, I could buy a couple pounds of powder. This unsafe act is RAMPANT at one of the clubs where I belong. I could buy another pound of powder when I questioned them on it and when they pulled the bolt back, a loaded round ejected. A rifle without a magazine is not an unloaded rifle. Ironic and for whatever reason, LEOs and combat vets are the worst offenders.