Vertical Dispersion - Weighing Primers

[mikeeg02]

some people do not read the fine print.
it started with 1000 br, it applies to 1000 yd br.
maybe others, no promises,
your targets are too big, your shooting aint as precise.
real life

Dont cut the f glass guys short. They have time constraints that br guys dont have to deal with. It's definitely it's own art/discipline. But both dsiciplines can benefit from making fliers smaller.

 

[rsmithsr50]

excuse me...
you get how long for a 20 shot string ??
we get 7 min for 5 or 10( first relay is 10 min for zeros)

Dont cut the f glass guys short. They have time constraints that br guys dont have to deal with. It's definitely it's own art/discipline. But both dsiciplines can benefit from making fliers smaller.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Maybe it's just being new but @ 600 yds a half inch is a half inch, BR or F class
Shooting 1 inch groups or 6 inch groups, a half inch is a half inch.
Shooting for points, keeping the group in the fat part of the circle helps.
20 min for 20.

 

[mikeeg02]

excuse me...
you get how long for a 20 shot string ??
we get 7 min for 5 or 10( first relay is 10 min for zeros)

I believe the f class guys have to wait 7ish seconds between each shot.

At Williamsport and reade we get 15 minutes to shoot our 10 shot strings. When I shoot, I'm done with ten shots in my light gun in about 25 seconds.

 

[Rocketvapor]

The 7 seconds is the minimum for E-Targets.
You get the full 20 minutes for 20.
Anybody shoot all 20 in under 3 minutes?

This started out about vertical dispersion improvements from sorting primers by weight.
Doesn't this apply to both BR and F-Class?
Is the improvement at 600 or 1000 (if it really exists) a tenth of an inch, a half of an inch, or more? Is it worth the time?
If you are a national competitor, or a newb just starting, a half inch just might matter.
I'm retired. I have the time

 

[mikeeg02]

The 7 seconds is the minimum for E-Targets.
You get the full 20 minutes for 20.
Anybody shoot all 20 in under 3 minutes?

I have a few friends that shoot f class and dont mess around. Unless a big condition change rolls in the middle of their string, they are on the money when they say fire. They hold their own pretty well, they also shoot br.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

No excuses....
You either hit what your looking at or you didn't plain and simple.
If I was a competitor and I needed to know I left no stone unturned to get that warm fuzzy feeling I did everything I possibly could...
I would possibly weight sort.....
But with work, a wife and barley enough time to load and tune as it is, I really dont ever see it happening.

Is “barley enough time” a Freudian whiskey reference?

 

[newbieshooter]

some people do not read the fine print.
it started with 1000 br, it applies to 1000 yd br.
maybe others, no promises,
your targets are too big, your shooting aint as precise.
real life

maybe I missed something.....I don't see anywhere in the OP where the shooter is shooting 1000 BR.
Doesn't vertical dispersion apply to all types of shooting?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

@Alex Wheeler or @tom do you weigh primers?

I do not take my personal competitiveness all that serious any more. I am far more interested in the mechanical side of the game. The top guys are working their asses off testing things most would never think to even try. I dont sort anything, not because it doesnt matter, but because I do not have the time. Or at least am not willing to make the time. But everything matters if you want to win. Ignition is the most overlooked yet most critical part of consistent accuracy. Anything you can to do to uniform it, whether in the action, trigger, or primer, is very important. You just need to be shooting small enough to see it. In the long range game, its really easy to blame a flier on a condition, when it was really in the rifle or load.
Like tom mentioned before, what holds most back is simply the wrong tune.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Maybe we need a thread for the high performance BR competitors and another for the want-a-bee F-Class shooters like me.
The question branched out to not having time to find the answer.
Sorting does nothing or sorting does a tiny bit.

 

[davidjoe]

During the primer blight I ran out of BR2’s and got down to having to load some hunting grade Winchester primers for a match. Man primers can a make a difference in group size. It stands to reason powder charge weight is about the only thing that plausibly could explain opened up groups. Compound variation, looseness, and whatever causes duds could also occur but are hard to evaluate. The sheet metal used for forming cups is very uniform so it’s not the culprit.

 

[tom]

@Alex Wheeler or @tom do you weigh primers?

Yes for matches for me. I don't for testing unless I have a bunch done ahead of time. And I shoot well testing, but I avoid lots that are of the spread the OP has questions about.

Tom

 

[Rocketvapor]

Is that normal with 400's?
A lot lighter than the 450's I checked.

 

[rsmithsr50]

the subject of weight sorting( not just either end, but sorting them all) primers for minimizing vertical sarted in 1000 yd benchrest, and is the only place it has been tested and proven.
when people start talking about it out side of 1000 yard br, they are on their own. it was not meant for the rest of the world, they can do as they please
EXCEPT to say it does not work, esp without qualifying their answer.
f class is not BENCHREST.
"all types of shooting" is a poor choice of words. few will benefit from weight sorting primers as they are NOT PRECISE enough to see the benefit.

maybe I missed something.....I don't see anywhere in the OP where the shooter is shooting 1000 BR.
Doesn't vertical dispersion apply to all types of shooting?

 

[JFrank]

I believe the f class guys have to wait 7ish seconds between each shot.

At Williamsport and reade we get 15 minutes to shoot our 10 shot strings. When I shoot, I'm done with ten shots in my light gun in about 25 seconds.

25 seconds!!
You slowing down old Man ???

 

[Rocketvapor]

Like this ?

or this?

or this

These guys are members, right?

 

[mikeeg02]

25 seconds!!
You slowing down old Man ???

I have a video before I got better at it. But I'm not sure how to post it. It was 28 seconds from first trigger touch to tenth. I aspire to keep up with Bob shields who is pretty consistently low 20 seconds for ten shots. Again, in a 17# light gun.

Like this ?

Think quicker. while still keeping the cross hairs where they need to be

 

[Rocketvapor]

Well, that's a level of shooting I don't see in my future.
Partly money, partly skill.
Actually mostly skill. or maybe money

 

[mikeeg02]

Well, that's a level of shooting I don't see in my future.
Partly money, partly skill.
Actually mostly skill. or maybe money

Doesnt have to cost a lot of money. You can make/modify most of it yourself. I'm just using a piece of walnut I hogged out and a modified sinclair rest, but I do like my kelbly action. A smooth running bolt is hard to be without, and still have consistent, fluid motions.

Practicing in match conditions (whatever your format may be) is extremely important. It's good to start with the equipment you have and learn WHY you need something, rather than start shelling out for everything and get frustrated if you cant make it work. I've seen a lot of people come with the far more and better equipment than I, and get frustrated to the point they want to wholesale everything because they struggle to put it all together. Start small, test, and find out what improvements you want, need, can afford, and most importantly enjoy it and have fun.

Nobody likes the people so caught up in it, that you can't stand to be around them. I dont believe there are actually any secrets. Just good testing.

 

[JFrank]

Well, that's a level of shooting I don't see in my future.
Partly money, partly skill.
Actually mostly skill. or maybe money

Shooting small doesn’t have to be a huge financial commitment.
Edit- however it helps to be committed