Vertical Dispersion - Weighing Primers

[Rocketvapor]

I'm sort of new to this so improvement with trigger time will likely mask any improvement from sorting primers.
I could color code my primers and notice improvement from match to match.
So far, red markers seem to do the best.

 

[dmoran]

I'm probably going to regret this... but besides weight, what other parameter are you finding significant enough to warrant measuring?

A good question, and one I asked myself. I do it to ensure that each primer is seated to a precise depth.
Will link you to the tool we use and it's description: https://kmshooting.com/product/primer-gauge/


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Somebody’s got a hell of a lot of spare time.

Some try to shoot extremely small and precise on every target, and do just that almost every time they shoot a match. When I see your winning results and aggregates, I will pay more attention to your inputs and advises. Until such a time, I will continue paying most attention to the inputs, advises, and methods used by those that are winning. Myself will continue testing as many aspects that I can, and put in the due diligence to every probable effecting aspect that I choose to test and/or utilize.

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[Bc'z]

Somebody’s got a hell of a lot of spare time.

Jim I've talked to alot of shooters/forum members on the phone while discussing stock work and paint.
I've asked most all of them about weight sorting primers......
I have yet to get a yes answer.
Trust me I've asked guys that hold records, win matches and shoot on the US Fclass team.

 

[dmoran]

.... Trust me I've asked guys that hold records, win matches and shoot on the US Fclass team.

Asked any LR-Benchrest shooters that win often and/or hold records, if they do?
Besides the several that I know that do, also aware 4 of them are current 1000-BR record holders (all 4 are active members here).

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

@MikeMcCasland thanks for starting this thread, I’m on a steep earning curve here.

For those that found swapping primers made a load better, did you basically repeat the whole ladder with the different primers or just find a node then try a few different primers at the same charge?

 

[D-4297]

Starting to sound as though it is more of a common practice in BR , than with F Class shooters , for whatever the reasoning . Maybe it's just farther down on the list of "necessary" , for F shooters due to the amount of rounds we shoot, and number of matches participated in .

 

[savageshooter86]

I find best load. Then use same load and try different primers. If it gets a lot better I will re test on the sides of powder charge. If it’s worse I don’t pursue that primer. I also use labradar info to have with my target data just so I have it

 

[Rocketvapor]

I also try different primers after finding a "Load". But the gist here is do each brand/type have outliers in weight that might make just a tiny difference.
Even the best? Maybe?
I took a box of 100. Found 5 that fall at the edge of weight.
More than enough for one F-Class match.

 

[mikeeg02]

Jim I've talked to alot of shooters/forum members on the phone while discussing stock work and paint.
I've asked most all of them about weight sorting primers......
I have yet to get a yes answer.
Trust me I've asked guys that hold records, win matches and shoot on the US Fclass team.

I think you'll find in the winner's circle, there are those who will tell you they are doing it, and the rest are lieing to you.

It's less about what they weigh, and more about keeping the high ones from being shot in a group with some low ones, or vice versa. I can tell you the guys in 1k br that are winning, and running aggregates are doing it. And many top winning f class shooters that are doing it, wont tell you they are because they dont want you to do it. Ask @dkhunt14 how many big f class guys have asked him, and reported back what happened when they started.

Now, if you cant get your gun under say 6-7" for ten shots at 1k, you're likely not going to see the improvement. You still have other issues to work out. But the key to this game is eliminating those pesky fliers.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I assume that a pesky flier is a 10 instead of an X?

 

[mikeeg02]

I assume that a pesky flier is a 10 instead of an X?

A pesky flier can take a nine shot low 3"er and have shot ten take it to a 5.0"er. So I've heard.

Not that primers were the issue there. But that's what I call a pesky flier.

 

[Bc'z]

I think you'll find in the winner's circle, there are those who will tell you they are doing it, and the rest are lieing to you.

It's less about what they weigh, and more about keeping the high ones from being shot in a group with some low ones, or vice versa. I can tell you the guys in 1k br that are winning, and running aggregates are doing it. And many top winning f class shooters that are doing it, wont tell you they are because they dont want you to do it. Ask @dkhunt14 how many big f class guys have asked him, and reported back what happened when they started.

Now, if you cant get your gun under say 6-7" for ten shots at 1k, you're likely not going to see the improvement. You still have other issues to work out. But the key to this game is eliminating those pesky fliers.

Trust me mike I've thought about the flat out lying part.
I also understand the shooter and rifle need to be capable of shooting the difference.
Not to mention the scale needs to be able to measure the difference.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I guess you need a prioritized list of excuses on your dope card
With primer weight being at the bottom.

When you guys usually shoot nothing but cleans an extra point won't help.
For us that shoot less than that, a point is a point.

 

[dmoran]

.... key to this game is eliminating those pesky fliers.

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[mikeeg02]

I guess you need a prioritized list of excuses on your dope card
With primer weight being at the bottom.

When you guys usually shoot nothing but cleans an extra point won't help.
For us that shoot less than that, a point is a point.

I've never shot f class, but I like to think I hold my own in 1k br. I think I had a pretty good year last year.

In both disciplines, keeping the vertical down is key. In f class you can hold all you want, but if you've got more than 5" of vertical, it would be hard to make a call to hold for elevation, for a shot that went high or low, and to know whether it was a condition or your load that you're trying to account for. If that makes sense.

Edit: in that scenario it can cause for over compensation on your next hold. I've done that shooting 850-1k silhouette matches. (Ridgway)

 

[rsmithsr50]

are you shooting at 1000 yards at a benchrest target ?
did you shoot them in .02gr batches, not just void of outliers ?

Mike ; I did the weigh primers thing for over a year , using S&B SRP's and Rem 7-1/2 BR's . Used all the "out-lyers" for practice , and the "good" ones for matches . Didn't see any difference in scoring over the period , so I spent more time on the range , instead of in front of the scale . My scores slowly got better . But if you think there's a advantage to doing it , then by all means , keep doing it .

 

[rsmithsr50]

some people do not read the fine print.
it started with 1000 br, it applies to 1000 yd br.
maybe others, no promises,
your targets are too big, your shooting aint as precise.
real life

Jim I've talked to alot of shooters/forum members on the phone while discussing stock work and paint.
I've asked most all of them about weight sorting primers......
I have yet to get a yes answer.
Trust me I've asked guys that hold records, win matches and shoot on the US Fclass team.

 

[Bc'z]

I guess you need a prioritized list of excuses on your dope card
With primer weight being at the bottom.

When you guys usually shoot nothing but cleans an extra point won't help.
For us that shoot less than that, a point is a point.

No excuses....
You either hit what your looking at or you didn't plain and simple.
If I was a competitor and I needed to know I left no stone unturned to get that warm fuzzy feeling I did everything I possibly could...
I would possibly weight sort.....
But with work, a wife and barley enough time to load and tune as it is, I really dont ever see it happening.

 

[rsmithsr50]

you should repeat the whole process, else just guessing, not developing

@MikeMcCasland thanks for starting this thread, I’m on a steep earning curve here.

For those that found swapping primers made a load better, did you basically repeat the whole ladder with the different primers or just find a node then try a few different primers at the same charge?

 

[mikeeg02]

some people do not read the fine print.
it started with 1000 br, it applies to 1000 yd br.
maybe others, no promises,
your targets are too big, your shooting aint as precise.
real life

Dont cut the f glass guys short. They have time constraints that br guys dont have to deal with. It's definitely it's own art/discipline. But both dsiciplines can benefit from making fliers smaller.