Question for pistol shooters

[JEFFPPC]

In today's Daily Bulletin showing a pistol target for sell that shows what your doing wrong. There is an area from 7:00 to 8:00 and then one from 4:00 to 5:00 . One says tightening finger pressure the other tightening hand pressure. Wbhats the difference? I have seen these targets before and have always had this question

 

[Dub]

it is assuming you are using a correct grip (see PISTOL MARKSMANSHIP by the Army Marksmanship Unit). Those target help you tweak your shooting to perfection if used properly. IF your grip is not correct you will chase your tail.

 

[JMayo]

Left hand is the grip hand (working hard hand.)
Right hand is the finger hand. (Happy hand)
(R hand shooters)
If I'm understanding the thing correctly.

 

[T-shooter]

Here is a good way to see things you may be doing wrong. I had a dud round one time and was trying to shoot accurately. I thought was doing good with a 9mm and when I pulled the trigger on the dud, I noticed the muzzle dropped down and to the left even though it didn't fire. ??? Evidently I was anticipating recoil even though when dry firing I never did that. After I concentrated on preventing that from happening my groups got better.

Have a friend load a couple magazines with a random 1 or 2 rounds each that cannot fire (maybe snap caps if you don't reload) or 1 mag with all good and 1mag with 1 bad round somewhere. It needs to be a surprise. Have them watch or even video record it and see what happens.

 

[powderbrake]

In today's Daily Bulletin showing a pistol target for sell that shows what your doing wrong. There is an area from 7:00 to 8:00 and then one from 4:00 to 5:00 . One says tightening finger pressure the other tightening hand pressure. Wbhats the difference? I have seen these targets before and have always had this question

For a right handed shooter, The 4-5:00 is the whole hand squeezing harder on the grip, while the 7-8:00 is the ends of the fingers pushing against the left side of the grip.

 

[Dub]

this chart is for one hand shooting.

 

[watercam]

Many of those charts are meant for Bullseye/Precision Pistol competitors and are meant to be used when shooting with one hand only (as that is the challenge in the game).

 

[riflewoman]

These “charts” are wrong and even “wrong headed”. Most good pistol coaches ignore them. Why because they seldom reflect what a typical shooter does. Take for example the one at 7:00 “jerking” (the trigger). If you’re jerking the trigger that bad and you’re not seeing it in the sights, you need to open your eyes. Most people can develop skills to keep all the bullets in the aiming black at 25 or even 50 yards. I prefer to train people with this simpler target. But the first fundamental is keeping the sights aligned when you pull the trigger.

 

[1911nut]

I got one of those charts when I started bullseye shootin, I chased my shots all around that chart for years. It made me aware of shooting errors and helped some.

Then I attended a bullseye clinic put on by Brian Zins (worlds best bullseye shooter ever), when Brian was asked about that chart he strongly suggested not use it. He said it was all ANTICIPATION and just don’t do it.

Seems to me there’s a millisecond before the shot breaks when you anticipate the noise and recoil and do one of those things on the chart.

it’s a mental control thing, focusing on the sights or dot and realizing the gun will eventually go off as you increase pressure on the trigger. Just keep the sights on the target and accept the wobble.

The carnival game “Squirt the Clown” thinking/gun holding/sighting helped me reduce anticipation.

 

[Rsadams]

Here is a good way to see things you may be doing wrong. I had a dud round one time and was trying to shoot accurately. I thought was doing good with a 9mm and when I pulled the trigger on the dud, I noticed the muzzle dropped down and to the left even though it didn't fire. ??? Evidently I was anticipating recoil even though when dry firing I never did that. After I concentrated on preventing that from happening my groups got better.

Have a friend load a couple magazines with a random 1 or 2 rounds each that cannot fire (maybe snap caps if you don't reload) or 1 mag with all good and 1mag with 1 bad round somewhere. It needs to be a surprise. Have them watch or even video record it and see what happens.

Try not gripping it so hard with the pinky finger on your right hand... If your right handed... Think spider man when he shoots the web , point finger pulls the trigger , two middle finger grip and pinky finger not so tight.. Should stop that.... Don't tighten your grip when pulling the trigger... One sight alignment , one grip strength and one trigger pull all the same everytime... Rinse repeat....

 

[T-shooter]

Try not gripping it so hard with the pinky finger on your right hand... If your right handed... Think spider man when he shoots the web , point finger pulls the trigger , two middle finger grip and pinky finger not so tight.. Should stop that.... Don't tighten your grip when pulling the trigger... One sight alignment , one grip strength and one trigger pull all the same everytime... Rinse repeat....

That was learned a long time ago. A good way is to put a laser bore sighter in the barrel and dry fire at different things. (preferably taking the ammo out first) The point on the wall or wherever you point it should not change when you pull the trigger. I have a Laserlyte small laser that shows a dot of light only when the shock of the hammer falling is detected. That came in very handy learning to point shoot. I used to watch TV and pick out criminals or whatever. I got to where I could shoot from the hip and hit a small target 15' away without looking at the pistol. These are still available and are a great training tool if you are careful.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010FMFRLO/?tag=accuratescom-20

 

[Rsadams]

That was learned a long time ago. A good way is to put a laser bore sighter in the barrel and dry fire at different things. (preferably taking the ammo out first) The point on the wall or wherever you point it should not change when you pull the trigger. I have a Laserlyte small laser that shows a dot of light only when the shock of the hammer falling is detected. That came in very handy learning to point shoot. I used to watch TV and pick out criminals or whatever. I got to where I could shoot from the hip and hit a small target 15' away without looking at the pistol. These are still available and are a great training tool if you are careful.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010FMFRLO/?tag=accuratescom-20

Lol , preferably taking the ammo out huh...? Yup pistol shooting is hard , even understanding everything we should be doing , it's tough... I shoot alot out of my carry gun but still after years and years catch myself flinching.... I just stop , regroup and start again.... I have a large CHL class to help teach during the shooting phase... Most are my friends this time and after years of hearing how good they shoot I can't wait...lol... If I could take a six pack and a lawn chair I would... This is going to be great... These guys shoot once a year and only one has asked me to take him tomorrow to try and get some range time before the test Saturday.... I hope they can pass , the offer for them to go shoot with me has been open for years....

 

[JEFFPPC]

These “charts” are wrong and even “wrong headed”. Most good pistol coaches ignore them. Why because they seldom reflect what a typical shooter does. Take for example the one at 7:00 “jerking” (the trigger). If you’re jerking the trigger that bad and you’re not seeing it in the sights, you need to open your eyes. Most people can develop skills to keep all the bullets in the aiming black at 25 or even 50 yards. I prefer to train people with this simpler target. But the first fundamental is keeping the sights aligned when you pull the trigger.

Riflewoman, I always enjoy your posts as I feel you speak from your experience, not what you have read. But, this by far is your best post. It sums up what I feel.@#$%&*(*&%$#@To all the rest of you who have answered thanks a lot ,some good info I will try. I am strictly a 2 handed pistol guy but once in a while I shoot both strong and weak hand and tend to group a bit low left or right especially with my strong hand . Thanks guys.

 

[ronsatspokane]

These “charts” are wrong and even “wrong headed”. Most good pistol coaches ignore them. Why because they seldom reflect what a typical shooter does. Take for example the one at 7:00 “jerking” (the trigger). If you’re jerking the trigger that bad and you’re not seeing it in the sights, you need to open your eyes. Most people can develop skills to keep all the bullets in the aiming black at 25 or even 50 yards. I prefer to train people with this simpler target. But the first fundamental is keeping the sights aligned when you pull the trigger.

OK, now that's funny. I need to print a copy of that target and use it at the range.

 

[Deleted outa08]

I have a copy of that target. I don`t use it. I think it would lead to overthinking. I learned over 40 years ago that nothing beats professional training. That`s when I attended Ray Chapman`s School in Missouri. At that time Ray and Jeff Cooper were most likely the only name people offering instruction. I left that class a much better shooter. Since then, I have shot with Ken Hackatorn,Rob Leatham, and some classes at the old Blackwater. The one thing they all had in common: Practice as often as possible, dry fire when you can`t get to the range,and renew your training to have an outsider evaluate your shooting. Good luck with your shooting. I`m 68 and shoot as much as possible and dry fire my Glock everyday. From one Jeff to another.
Happy shooting, Jeff

 

[powderbrake]

I have done a lot of bullseye pistol shooting, and when I started I got some pieces of advice which I will pass along.

1) Learn and perfect the front-rear-target sight picture. (for bullseye shooting, front and rear sights level and located at the bottom of the bullseye, some people like the center of the bullseye)

2) Focus your eye on the front sight. (this means the rear sight and the target are most likely to be out of focus)

3) It should be a surprise when the gun goes off. (this means maintain sight picture, while gradually increasing pressure on the trigger, and it should be a surprise every time the gun fires)

As 1911Nut said, many of the errors are from anticipation. By rule #3, if you are concentrating on the squeeze, you can't anticipate.

While you are working on maintaining the sight picture, and squeezing, the sight picture is wandering all over the target. Many people try to pull or yank the trigger as it passes the perfect point of aim. You must overcome this tendency, and let the gun fire when the gradual squeeze causes it to fire. That wander of the sights will decrease with practice, and so will your groups.

Of course there are lots of other things to do, like correct posture, grip strength, breathing, etc., but those are all set-up concerns. When you are about to fire, you must not be thinking about anything except the gradual squeeze and the sight picture. Pretty soon the gradual squeeze (and all those other concerns) becomes "muscle memory" and you can concentrate 100% on sight picture.

 

[Outrider27]

I remember my introduction to your very important item #2, powderbrake. It was from a retired Marine marksmanship instructor that I was fortunate enough to encounter very early in my bullseye pistol career. His comment on dealing with the blurred target, "Don't worry that the bullseye is blurred - it isn't going anywhere." That, and the emphasis on sight alignment (your item #1) he taught me greatly improved my scores - that and lots of practice.

 

[divingin]

3)As 1911Nut said, many of the errors are from anticipation. By rule #3, if you are concentrating on the squeeze, you can't anticipate.

Not arguing, but I find that concentrating on anything but the sight picture takes my concentration off the sights, leading to poor shots. I shoot mostly International Pistol, and find that I shoot my best scores when I can: attain sight picture, start trigger squeeze, concentrate on keeping the sights aligned, let the shot break whenever it goes.

While you are working on maintaining the sight picture, and squeezing, the sight picture is wandering all over the target. Many people try to pull or yank the trigger as it passes the perfect point of aim. You must overcome this tendency, and let the gun fire when the gradual squeeze causes it to fire.

Definitely true. Trying to time the sight picture to the shot break leads to all kinds of bad stuff. Shoot your wobble - hold as best you can and let the shot go, while making sure the sights are aligned. It's actually pretty amazing to see how far off the bull the aligned sights can be, and still deliver a 10.

Best drill for new bullseye shooters (other than dryfire) is to hang a blank piece of paper (target hung backwards) at a range that makes it hard to see the holes. Have the shooter fire one shot, and tell how the sights were aligned before recoil disrupted them. Repeat a bunch of times. You can shoot pretty good groups without an aim point as long as you make sure the sights are aligned at the time the shot breaks.