Lack of annealing and velocity

[Gil P.]

What are your targets telling you? Can you see a vertical drop on the targets between batches?

No, but I re zeroed and chronoed every batch.

 

[T-shooter]

Annealing may or may not make much of a difference. It probably will make a difference in neck tension and bullet release force but I don't know if that would be measurable on a chrono. If you can, have someone anneal 10-20 cases (mark them) and load them at the same times as your others. Average the velocities. Any less than 10 probably won't tell you anything. You could alternate between annealed and un-annealed to keep the barrel temperature from effecting the results.

 

[Gil P.]

Thank you sir! I've got a batch loaded, unfortunately I'll be away from home for the next 2 weeks, so getting my results won't be until then.

 

[Gil P.]

Those 2 weeks turned into 5 months unfortunately.
Anyway, I have some results.

The Lyman scale was giving me erroneous readings. So far, loading on the fx120i, my velocity has been consistent my SDs reduced.

I checked one of my Lyman cartridges and checked the power weight on my fx120i. I loaded it on the Lyman at 40.5gr H4350, and it measured 40.56gr on the fx120i. Not a big difference, but keep in mind I only checked 1 cartridge. After that I loaded 30 cartridges on the fx120i of 40.56gr H4350.

All are x15 shots.

Lyman avg 2873, SD 12, ES 39
Fx120i avg 2850, SD 10, ES 31

Not much better on the Fx120i, but it was interesting how much lower the average velocity was.

After some more testing, I settled on 40.3 H4350 loaded on the Fx120i.

Avg 2829, SD 6, ES 27.

Ill try using some new brass the next time I shoot and see how that goes.

 

[Chuckhunter]

Gil, I have found that my 6.5X47 hunting rifle never gives me the kind of chrono numbers that my 6BRA 1000yd light gun gives me. I have never accomplished single digit Extreme spreads with it. That being said you should be able to get them down to the 10 to 15 fps range which will give you single digit SD's . My best long range load has lousy ES & Sd's but shoots consistently 2 inches and under in a variety of conditions at 500yds. Get the best load that you can and try 3 or 4 different primers, one will give you lower numbers than the others. Unless this is a 1000yd Benchrest rifle don't get overly hung up on the chrono readings, your target will tell you if the load is shooting well and if it's consistent. By the way I use the Fx120i and load to the kernel like I'm loading for a match but the deer don't seem to know that I don't get match type numbers.

 

[Gil P.]

That's what I'll try next with the primers. It's shooting pretty good with CCI 450s, but you never know.

Ill check my groups at 500 yards or more and report what I get.

 

[JimSC]

Thank you sir! I've got a batch loaded,

it's not just the loading, but also the shooting. Inconsistent technique can throw off velocity and point of impact. I have a proven and tested load that begins to shoot poorly the first thing I look at is myself. 99 times out 100 I have changed something in my posture or technique. Most phones have video cameras, great for self evaluation

 

[David Christian]

@Gil P., you should focus on getting your ES to 20 or lower. After that there will be diminishing returns on whatever you try with brass prep. Your components are known and a good combo. a few questions to consider:

-Are you using gage pins prior to bullet seating to uniform the inside of the case necks?
-Are you chamfering the necks in a consistent way each time?
-How are you cleaning your brass? Think consistent carbon, graphite, or other lube inside the necks?
-Have you tried annealing to see how consistent the brass hardness/softness is when bullet seating?
-Have you read Erik Cortina’s thread “Long range load dev at 100 yards” to see if you have found the right charge weight and seating depth?

let us know what you find.

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

@Joe R are you in Sales? Cause you certainly have made a lot of "personal" videos that stay on the same script.


Great video by the way..... can you make one for me too?

 

[JFrank]

Glad yer getting things figured out, originally I thought the 2900 FPS you mentioned was quite fast, I didn’t think the 6.5 47 had that much in the engine room, low 2800 seems more appropriate from what I’ve read.
Best wishes moving forward
J

 

[Gil P.]

@Gil P., you should focus on getting your ES to 20 or lower. After that there will be diminishing returns on whatever you try with brass prep. Your components are known and a good combo. a few questions to consider:

-Are you using gage pins prior to bullet seating to uniform the inside of the case necks?
-Are you chamfering the necks in a consistent way each time?
-How are you cleaning your brass? Think consistent carbon, graphite, or other lube inside the necks?
-Have you tried annealing to see how consistent the brass hardness/softness is when bullet seating?
-Have you read Erik Cortina’s thread “Long range load dev at 100 yards” to see if you have found the right charge weight and seating depth?

let us know what you find.

Hello,
I'm note sure what gauge pins are, but I'll find out.
I chamfer the necks after FL sizing by hand.
I don't lube the necks, and clean them on a tumbler with regular walnut media.
I don't anneal, but am certainly willing to start.
I did try that 100yd load development by Erik Cortina, but my results weren't very good. It was likely due to my faulty Lyman scale.

 

[Evan]

I'm not convinced annealing is a needed step because I've never been able to see consistently better results on my targets. So I stopped trying it and went back to simply keeping brass grouped together and on the same firing.

 

[Gil P.]

I tested cartridges in 2 tenth grain increments from 39.8 gr, down to 39.0 grains. I loaded 3 cartridges for each powder charge and recorded the velocities.

I found 39.4gr and 39.6gr gave me very consistent velocities between the two different charge weights.

39.4 was 2774 2762 and 2765 fps
39.6 was 2778 2776 and 2767 fps

Not bad with an ES of 16 fps between the two.

 

[JimSC]

loading ten rounds at 39.5 would be my next step, looks like you have found the sweetspot

 

[Gil P.]

I was thinking the same.

 

[AJC]

May want to play and see if there is any further width to your window. Try a .3 and .7 and see if they are in or out of window. I mean if your going to the range who shoots only 10 shots, and the data might be helpful.

 

[Old Navy]

Looks like a better scale solved your problem. I shoot a 6.5X47 with 28" Shilen. 2900 is over the top. 2820 is low. Should have seen an ejector make with the 2900 one. My Hybrid/VLD load is 40.4 H4350 running .015" off. It doesn't make any difference if it is 40 or 85 degrees. My Magneto Speed has given me 2850 to 2865 over a 1 1/2 year period. All my components were of the same lot numbers. Glad you solved the problem before you had a safety issue.

 

[Gil P.]

May want to play and see if there is and further width to your window. Try a .3 and .7 and see if they are in or out of window. I mean if your going to the range who shoots only 10 shots, and the data might be helpful.

Ill try it, although 39.2 and 39.8 were out of my window.