Part 2 - load development for Berger 85.5 LRHT but this time with H4895 - Updated more testing

[dstoenner]

This is a follow-on post to my first set of targets using Varget for the 85.5 Berger LRHT. That thread is:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...ith-varget-updated-with-more-testing.3991398/

It had been suggested that H4895 might be better and give higher velocities. I finally got to the range with the work up of H4895. Most manuals show H4895 to have a max load less than Varget so I started .4 grains lower for load 1. Then stepped loads .2 gn so my sequence was from 22.6 to 24.4.

Here is my combined target looking for any flattened primers or hard bolt lift. I didn't find any of that. At first I thought shot 6 was because of my rear bag catching but when I look at the groups #6 was left of the beginning groups.

Then I started shooting and recording each step load from 22.6 to 24.4 except for 24.0 the groups were rather unspectacular from Varget.

If I compare the ballistic data from Varget vs H4895, Varget had superior basic groups with much better SD/ES than H4895. If H4895's 24.0 is a real node it is REALLY small, where Varget had a much wider node around 24.4 to 24.6. What is interesting is that both Varget node of 24.5 is a velocity of 2785 and H4895's 24.0 with velocity of 2870. That is another 100 fps but it could be more finicky to deal with in competition over temp and barrel wear.

Ned you were right I might get more velocity.

I think I have one more experiment to run in order to bring this to conclusion. I am going to load up some 24.0 at the 2.570 I loaded these to get a couple of 5 shot groups and then load 5 at 2.560, 2.550 and 2.540 to see what happens with jump. Varget was very tolerant of jump. I want to see if H4895 is equally tolerant.

Interested to hear what you all think?

David

 

[dstoenner]

I was able to get back to the range and test H4895 for seating depth testing and finally comparing the H4895 node to the Varget node.

I had 60 bullets left and 60 cases of the Lapua batch I worked out of for the first attempt of testing H4895. I decided to load 20 at the best node in round 1, same OAL length which is 15 off the lands as the powder test rounds. That was a OAL of 2.570. I then loaded 10 at .010 shorter (longer jump) at 2.560 and 10 more at another .010 shorter for a OAL of 2.550. I used 24.0 H4895 which was the best node in round 1. For the last 20, I loaded what had seemed to work from the Varget which was 24.5 at 2.570.

This first target is the 20 H4895 at 2.570. My disappointment was that the groups were just not consistent. Not sure at all what was going on here. I can understand group 1 because that was from a cold clean barrel and when group 2 and 3 shaped I thought all was good, then group 4. This was all shot from a bench, not prone.

Now for the seating depth testing. Here things looked the same as Varget. These bullets, at least in my gun, really liked to be jumped.

Now comes my big disappointment. My groups with Varget were much worse than my initial testing. I also don't think it was me as I just kept up the same rhythm for all 60 shots without any stopping. That took about 30 minutes. They were all single loaded in my 700 with a SLED in the mag well. I discounted the first group because I was changing powder even though it was the same bullet and case. On my initial testing the groups had been all in the .6 to .7. All of this H4895 testing and this Varget comparison were done with a different lot of 85.5. It is hard for me to imagine that Berger would let something change this drastically between lots but...

For me this is the end of testing. I am going to load up 50 with Varget and 50 with H4895 at the longer jump and shoot prone at my reduced targets for F-Class and see how they both do in more real world application of this bullet. I may even try some out of my match AR15 which has a 1:8 and see if it likes them.

HTH

David

 

[Colnagotex]

I was able to get back to the range and test H4895 for seating depth testing and finally comparing the H4895 node to the Varget node.

I had 60 bullets left and 60 cases of the Lapua batch I worked out of for the first attempt of testing H4895. I decided to load 20 at the best node in round 1, same OAL length which is 15 off the lands as the powder test rounds. That was a OAL of 2.570. I then loaded 10 at .010 shorter (longer jump) at 2.560 and 10 more at another .010 shorter for a OAL of 2.550. I used 24.0 H4895 which was the best node in round 1. For the last 20, I loaded what had seemed to work from the Varget which was 24.5 at 2.570.

This first target is the 20 H4895 at 2.570. My disappointment was that the groups were just not consistent. Not sure at all what was going on here. I can understand group 1 because that was from a cold clean barrel and when group 2 and 3 shaped I thought all was good, then group 4. This was all shot from a bench, not prone.

Now for the seating depth testing. Here things looked the same as Varget. These bullets, at least in my gun, really liked to be jumped.

Now comes my big disappointment. My groups with Varget were much worse than my initial testing. I also don't think it was me as I just kept up the same rhythm for all 60 shots without any stopping. That took about 30 minutes. They were all single loaded in my 700 with a SLED in the mag well. I discounted the first group because I was changing powder even though it was the same bullet and case. On my initial testing the groups had been all in the .6 to .7. All of this H4895 testing and this Varget comparison were done with a different lot of 85.5. It is hard for me to imagine that Berger would let something change this drastically between lots but...

For me this is the end of testing. I am going to load up 50 with Varget and 50 with H4895 at the longer jump and shoot prone at my reduced targets for F-Class and see how they both do in more real world application of this bullet. I may even try some out of my match AR15 which has a 1:8 and see if it likes them.

HTH

David

Sorry I missed it but what was the range for this test?

 

[dstoenner]

100 yards indoors. It was in my original thread on Varget testing

david

 

[markgrabowski]

David, have tried other bullets in this same barrel but got better groups? Like 80.5’s or 80vld’s?

 

[dstoenner]

Yes i shoot 52 and 55 Bergers to about .4 inch average. 77 smk and 80.5 to about .5 average. 80 smk that i have used for years wasn’t as good in this barrel as 80.5 Berger.

David

 

[Colnagotex]

I tested the 85.5 from a 30" HV 5R barrel chambered with the 223 ISSF Reamer. The bullets were sorted by B.S. only and they were charged with Varget and GM205m inside Lapua brass. I won't post all the pics, but i completed a ladder test, picked a few weights that looked good at 300 yds and then tested multiple seating depths. This pic is only 200 yds and the wind was blowing fairly steady at 5-8 mph from my 9-10 o'clock position and i used BR flags to help negate the wind(obviously still didn't get them all right). The 2 shots outside the group of 10 were let ups that i missed. The bullet seems to want to shoot in this combo. I'll test it further at 300 and 600 but it looks like it'll be a fun load to practice with, keeping the rounds down on my 308's. Good luck with your testing as well.
**Forgot to add this a 6.5 twist and the speed was 2850***

 

[dstoenner]

I tested the 85.5 from a 30" HV 5R barrel chambered with the 223 ISSF Reamer. The bullets were sorted by B.S. only and they were charged with Varget and GM205m inside Lapua brass. I won't post all the pics, but i completed a ladder test, picked a few weights that looked good at 300 yds and then tested multiple seating depths. This pic is only 200 yds and the wind was blowing fairly steady at 5-8 mph from my 9-10 o'clock position and i used BR flags to help negate the wind(obviously still didn't get them all right). The 2 shots outside the group of 10 were let ups that i missed. The bullet seems to want to shoot in this combo. I'll test it further at 300 and 600 but it looks like it'll be a fun load to practice with, keeping the rounds down on my 308's. Good luck with your testing as well.
**Forgot to add this a 6.5 twist and the speed was 2850***
View attachment 1155328

I thought that is some good shooting till i noticed it was at 200 yards. That is Great shooting.

What kind of SD’s are you seeing. Varget for me got better groups and wider node than h4895.

thanks for sharing

david