Am I using my FL bushing die wrong?

[Lefty Trigger]

I have several full length bushing dies and I was told the other day that I should NOT be using the expander on the decapping rod. I have been selecting a bushing size by measuring a loaded round and going .003 under but still using the expander.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)
https://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/132-faqs1
Some Frequently Asked Questions
Question: Do I need to use the expander button that came with my Type "S" Die?
Answer: It is advisable to use an expander button to maintain consistent neck tension if the case necks have not been turned to a uniform wall thickness. However, the expander button can be replaced with the Decapping Pin Retainer (included with your Type "S" Die) if the user does not wish to use an expander button.

Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)
Bushing Selection
https://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/140-bushing-selection
If the neck wall thickness varies more than 0.002", it may be necessary to use a bushing a couple of thousandths smaller than your calculations indicate, and then use a size button in the die to determine the final inside neck diameter.

 

[oley55]

they were right, the expander is undoing what the bushing does.

 

[Uncle Ed]

they were right, the expander is undoing what the bushing does.

A bushing pushes inward on the case neck and the expander pushes outward on the case neck.

If the case necks do not have a uniform thickness the bushing is pushing the neck thickness variations to the inside of the neck.

The Redding bushing die FAQ is very clear, if you do not turn the necks then use the expander that came with their die. It also states if the neck thickness varies more than .002 then select bushing a couple of thousandths smaller and use the expander to set the inside neck diameter.

I have had Remington .223 cases with up to .009 neck thickness variations and the expander has a purpose.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The expander puts it at a certain measurement and when you change bushings it still ends up the same. It may be just the right size for your needs though so use a bushing on the big end and let the expander plow thru there and see how it works

 

[AJC]

The expander puts it at a certain measurement and when you change bushings it still ends up the same. It may be just the right size for your needs though so use a bushing on the big end and let the expander plow thru there and see how it works

Does this type of die have different size expander buttons just like the different size bushings so you can tune neck tension

 

[gman47564]

If your not turning necks to a uniform thickness then i would leave the expander ball in it.. as has been said a bushing will push them variances in neck thickness to the inside.. giving inconsistent neck tension or bullet grip (however you want to say it)

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Not that i know of but you can always turn the button down to not expand then get a porter precision mandrel die

 

[Uncle Ed]

It's amazing what the main page of accurateshooter.com has for you to read.

Reloading Bench — How to Optimize Case Neck Tension
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2020/01/reloading-bench-how-to-optimize-case-neck-tension/

"Thru the years and shooting both a wide variety of calibers and burn rates of powder, I’ve had the best accuracy overall with .002″ of neck tension. Naturally you will run into a rifle now and then that will do its best with something different like .001″ or even .003″, but .002″ has worked very well for me. So how do we control the neck tension? Let’s take a look at that.

First of all, if you’re running a standard sizing die with an expander ball, just pull your decapping rod assembly out of your die and measure the expander ball. What I prefer [for starters] is to have an expander ball that is .003″ smaller than bullet diameter. So for example in a .224 caliber, run an expander ball of .221″. If you want to take the expander ball down in diameter, just chuck up your decapping rod assembly in a drill and turn it down with some emery cloth. When you have the diameter you need, polish it with three ought or four ought steel wool. This will give it a mirror finish and less drag coming through your case neck after sizing."

OMG the .223 Lyman type "M" expander I use has a .221 expander, and bumping the neck onto the .226 section aids in straight inline seating and reduces runout.

And with one twist of your wrist the Redding gauge below will tell you quickly how much neck thickness variation you have.

 

[snert]

There ya go....see above

 

[dgeesaman]

they were right, the expander is undoing what the bushing does.

It’s only 1/3 true.

Bushings compress the neck and leave it small enough to provide neck tension. But they leave only the outside of the neck round and accurately sized.

Expander balls restore roundness to the neck interior. They expand the brass a little bit and this is necessary to force the brass to hold the new shape.

I agree with Redding, only if you turn your necks will the inside and outside both be round and consistent from the bushing.

David

 

[L.Sherm]

Does this type of die have different size expander buttons just like the different size bushings so you can tune neck tension

Whiddens makes expander button kits if you run expander buttons.

 

[memilanuk]

Whiddens makes expander button kits if you run expander buttons.

Are you sure those fit the Redding die stem?

 

[L.Sherm]

My 30 cal Whidden expander threads on my 280 AI Redding one.
Be aware though John uses little smaller decapping pins so a Redding one wont go through the expander.

 

[oley55]

A bushing pushes inward on the case neck and the expander pushes outward on the case neck.

If the case necks do not have a uniform thickness the bushing is pushing the neck thickness variations to the inside of the neck.

The Redding bushing die FAQ is very clear, if you do not turn the necks then use the expander that came with their die. It also states if the neck thickness varies more than .002 then select bushing a couple of thousandths smaller and use the expander to set the inside neck diameter.

I have had Remington .223 cases with up to .009 neck thickness variations and the expander has a purpose.

my bad, I assumed turned necks.

 

[mikeeg02]

Dont be afraid to use the expander. Just make sure you're not way undersizing it with a small bushing first. I haven't had an issue running an expander ball in my dies. But you can only just tell its there on the down stroke of the case. It just kisses the expander

 

[mensajd]

If you will be using an expander ball, the carbide expander is a nice upgrade and has notably less friction when dragged through the sized neck. When I bought my last type s die it came with a standard expander.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

How long does it take to remove .003 from a RCBS expander chucked up in a drill with emery clothe? What grit will cut the best?

 

[jepp2]

How long does it take to remove .003 from a RCBS expander chucked up in a drill with emery clothe? What grit will cut the best?

They cut pretty quickly. Measure often. Cut rate is a function of grit selected, turning speed and pressure applied.

I've never needed to take off 0.003", usually they are somewhat under size to start with (0.001 - 0.002"), so if you take off another 0.003 you run way more neck tension than I do.

get a porter precision mandrel die

Or go with the 21'st Century expanders, you can buy them in 0.0005" increments now to fine tune your neck tension.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Or go with the 21'st Century expanders, you can buy them in 0.0005" increments now to fine tune your neck tension.

You can get them for a porter in less than .0001 increments for around $3 each