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using a progresive press for competition reloads ?

I use a pair of 1050s to load for Palma shooting up to International level.

Seems to work pretty well.

Dimensions (trim, shoulder position) typically sit within a 0.001" spread over 500 cases. Not a great deal of room to improve that, and arguable how much benefit there would be.



VA2H8453.jpg
 
What's your setup like on those? I'm not as familiar with the 1050 layout / operation...

Looks like an RT1200/1500 on the left one to size & trim, and a Sinclair expander mandrel to expand the neck? One on the right looks like an RCBS Uniflow w/ case-activated powder drop, bullet feeder, and Redding Competition seater?

Hard to believe you're using thrown charges with all those lab scales laying around... o_O

How many people are you loading for? Seems like you'd be able to load a season's worth of Palma ammo in a few hours!
 
milanuk said:
Looks like an RT1200/1500 on the left one to size & trim, and a Sinclair expander mandrel to expand the neck? One on the right looks like an RCBS Uniflow w/ case-activated powder drop, bullet feeder, and Redding Competition seater?
Click to expand...

Pretty close! Mandrel is a PMA Tool 0.307" carbide in a Sinclair die. I've actually moved that to the loading press (Goliath) since taking this photo.


Pass 1 on 'Samson' (Left press, case-prep):
  • 2: Decap
  • 3: 0.310" Expander*
  • 7: Redding Small Base Body Die
Pass 2 on 'Samson' (Left press, case-prep):
  • 2: Decap
  • 3: 0.310" Expander*
  • 7: CH4D Dillon Trim Die + RT1200 (FL Size & Trim, matched to brass neck thickness)
Pass 3 on 'Goliath' (Right Press, loading):
  • 2: Decap
  • 3: 0.307" carbide expander floating in Sinclair expander die
  • 4: <prime>
  • 5: Custom flare expander floating in Sinclair expander die**
  • 6: Powder Drop
  • 7: Bullet Drop
  • 8: Redding Comp seater

* The .310 expander serves 2 purposes: open-up any dinged necks, and the die body contacts the shell-plate to counter any tipping force from the sizing die in the opposite station.

** This is a bit like an 'M' die, but floats in a Sinclair expander die, and the smaller diameter doesn't do any expanding. It just puts the tiniest bit of flare on the case, which is the progressive loader's alternative to chamfering.

milanuk said:
Hard to believe you're using thrown charges with all those lab scales laying around... o_O
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't throw charges *that* much - the setup you see here is for dropping weighed charges (see video below); in this configuration it *only* loads about 300 rounds per hour at a tolerance of about +0.02 grains, but I'm increasingly using thrown charges for short range (600 yards or less) and/or for higher quantities.

milanuk said:
How many people are you loading for? Seems like you'd be able to load a season's worth of Palma ammo in a few hours!
Click to expand...

It's still quite time-consuming, and I shoot about 5,000 per year and load an additional 7,000. If I'm stainless tumbling there's actually a fourth pass (before the 3 above) to decap before tumbling. Pass 1 and 2 could be combined, but there would be a reduction in the consistency of trim length and shoulder placement. All the processes on the left press can run at close to 1000 cases per hour, while loading runs at about 300 for weighed charges or around 650 for thrown. I'm working on improvements to the dispenser that should increase the throughput to around 400 per hour, and a method to automate the powder transfer that I hope will hit 500 per hour. In all cases the charge tolerance can be opened-up to increase the throughput; I run some loads at a 0.06 charge spread instead of 0.02.

Here is the weighed charge process at its slowest setting (+0.02 tolerance), dispensing 46.00 to 46.02 grains in about 6 seconds, making for a cyclic rate of 12 to 13 seconds per finished round (starting from fully prepped brass).

 
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That is... impressive! ;)

I just recently started messing around with on-press trimming (for .223 Rem 'bulk' ammo)... I went with a decapping die, a Honey Badger trim setup (Bosch 1617EVS router w/ 3/8" endmill mated to a Dillon size/trim die), and a Lyman 'M' die. Still early days (for me), it's gonna be take a while before I trust that setup as far as I do my Giraud or Wilson trimmers. Mine is definitely a bit cramped all jammed together on a 4-hole press!

Not having to fumble around placing cases and bullets is nice, though, and having the powder thrower drop the weighed charge in the case when it's ready and in position is slick. At first I was thinking 'why?'... until I thought about the times I've had someone/thing distract me, and ended up dumping powder down the funnel with the ram/shellplate *down* :mad:

The charge/seat portion... honestly doesn't look much, if any, faster than what I get with my 550 + AutoThrower + AutoTrickler. I've never timed or videoed myself doing it though, so I might be all wet on that.

Then again, for me a large part of the 'goal' wasn't necessarily sheer production speed, so much as it was to reduce the number of 'touches' (to quote @Jay Christopherson) i.e. how many times I have to touch each and every dang component. I'm well and truly over the obsession of having to finger every round umpteen times from start to finish, at least at the volumes involved for traveling to multiple larger tournaments.

I do get where people who are committed to the very nth degree of accuracy want to control each and every step along the way, using single stage presses, hand trimmers and hydro seaters. I have all those things. I just don't like using them very much any more.
 
milanuk said:
That is... impressive! ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks! It's been many many years of research, development and refinement. Hopefully many more to come!

milanuk said:
having the powder thrower drop the weighed charge in the case when it's ready and in position is slick. At first I was thinking 'why?'... until I thought about the times I've had someone/thing distract me, and ended up dumping powder down the funnel with the ram/shellplate *down* :mad:
Click to expand...

Yep. I think I did that twice before deciding I needed to come-up with a better way. But the more important aspect is that interrupting the cycling of the press (to drop the powder mid-cycle) does not lead to consistent press operation, and cycling the press in a consistent manner is especially important when several things are happening at once.

milanuk said:
I do get where people who are committed to the very nth degree of accuracy want to control each and every step along the way, using single stage presses, hand trimmers and hydro seaters. I have all those things. I just don't like using them very much any more.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. A common philosophy seems to be "what can I do that *might* improve my ammo", whereas I look at it more like "what can I *not* do that I can demonstrate will not have an effect on my results". More time on the range, more plentiful supply of quality, cost-effective, ammo. More time in the wind. It has worked for me - but of course, with iron sights and a sling I'll never see any benefit to reducing groups below half a minute at 1000.

There was a time when I was shooting almost full-time, and I could happily spend a day a week loading. Eventually reality struck and I went back to work (which involved an international weekly commute). That's when a 1050 entered my life, as I needed to load the weekend's ammo before my wife realized I'd got home on a Friday evening :)

milanuk said:
The charge/seat portion... honestly doesn't look much, if any, faster than what I get with my 550 + AutoThrower + AutoTrickler. I've never timed or videoed myself doing it though, so I might be all wet on that.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but I'm not sure the AutoTrickler can dispense in 6 seconds from empty. Would be interesting to see the comparison. As I was starting 'from cold' and thinking about video things I wasn't quite at my slickest in that segment.

milanuk said:
and a Lyman 'M' die
Click to expand...
I started with an M die. They have a bit of a reputation for inducing a little bit of runout, hence I switched to the Sinclair and some custom mandrels.

I think the main thing for progressive precision is to separate any 'forceful' operations that could have an effect on other operations - that's mainly anything involving the shoulder. If you're setting the shoulder at the same time as trimming, for example, you'll see a little more variation in trim length. In my 2-step case-prep process, the shoulder is basically set in pass 1, so pass 2 is usually just sizing the neck while trimming (although it gives a second attempt at nudging the shoulder on a case that was a little stiffer than the rest).

Also, keep an eye on your shell-plate to see that there is no correlation between any variation and a particular station. I've replaced a shell-plate or two after attempts to free a stuck case left one station maybe 0.001" or so different from the rest.
 
Dusty Stevens said:
... And i never have understood why youd use a progressive as a single stage. I run my 550 like it was designed- never crossed my mind to do a secondary operation on it. I can crank out loaded ammo as long as i want to feed it and it shoots fine- but its not a benchrest press and i have accepted that.
Click to expand...

Primary reasons I do are flexibility and space efficiency. One press can do both high volume and low volume precision loading, only need spare parts/tooling for one machine, and minimal footprint on my bench.
 
Ill keep my comments in the vein of shooting f-class. I guarantee you that you can load as accurately as needed on a 550 if you do it right as you can by any other method. While not heavily promoted or admitted to there are more top f-class shooters using a 550 than you probably realize (although I totally admit that the majority still use an Arbor press). It takes the right dies, right tool-heads and some common sense understanding about what things are really having an effect on your accuracy.

I use the Harris method with an Autotrickler and Newlon dies but I prime separately. With brass primed and ready to go I loaded 800rds for Nationals/SOA in just about four hours and won three medals. I shoot 600yds every week and regularly shoot 200s with high X counts. My ammo will shoot a 2” vertical at 1000. Trust me, it works if you work it.

Now if you’re into using an arbor press and every aspect of that sort of loading process that’s cool too. I did that for years and it’s obviously the bees knees for a ton of people. Does it probably
give you more concentric ammo, sure. Does it let you sort your ammo by seating pressure, sure. Do a ton of top f-class guys load that way too, absolutely.

There is no BEST, there is only best for YOU so go out and test and make the best decision that works for you.

I can’t speak to BR or PRS use of a 550.
 
Not to hijack a thread but to those of you using a single progressive to load out from start to finish I would like to know what you are doing for lube? I recently aquired a second dillon and would like to set it up for my PRS rifle but I need to know what folks are doing for lube? I would assume most will be sizing and trimming as a seperate step thus eliminating this question but for those who do not what do you do about lube?
 
I use a Dillon 450 for my 200 and 300 yard match rifle and service loads, hand weigh 600 yard loads but still use the Dillon.
Prone rifle loads are not loaded with a progressive.
Steve Bair
 
@linebaugh I use the 6.5 Guys recipe... i.e. 10 or 12 to 1 alcohol/lanolin mix in a spray bottle.

Anneal, spray lube, decap, size, expand in tool head #1, tumble lube off, trim/chamfer/debur (Giraud), then decap (to clear any media from the flash holes), prime, charge & seat in tool head #2.
 
Last edited:
F Class John said:
Ill keep my comments in the vein of shooting f-class. I guarantee you that you can load as accurately as needed on a 550 if you do it right as you can by any other method. While not heavily promoted or admitted to there are more top f-class shooters using a 550 than you probably realize (although I totally admit that the majority still use an Arbor press). It takes the right dies, right tool-heads and some common sense understanding about what things are really having an effect on your accuracy.

I use the Harris method with an Autotrickler and Newlon dies but I prime separately. With brass primed and ready to go I loaded 800rds for Nationals/SOA in just about four hours and won three medals. I shoot 600yds every week and regularly shoot 200s with high X counts. My ammo will shoot a 2” vertical at 1000. Trust me, it works if you work it.

Now if you’re into using an arbor press and every aspect of that sort of loading process that’s cool too. I did that for years and it’s obviously the bees knees for a ton of people. Does it probably
give you more concentric ammo, sure. Does it let you sort your ammo by seating pressure, sure. Do a ton of top f-class guys load that way too, absolutely.

There is no BEST, there is only best for YOU so go out and test and make the best decision that works for you.

I can’t speak to BR or PRS use of a 550.
Click to expand...

Really good post here.

I'm making some impressive ammo on my Dillons and I wouldn't even consider going back to single stage.

Can't think there are many that would.
 
rsmithsr50 said:
as USUAL poor definition of the question.
DEFINE THE WORD COMPETITION.
probably not benchrest.
but yes easy on most pistol comp
service rifle
maybe f class if a wide load node is found.
Click to expand...

what part of the question don't you understand ?
How many of you guys use a progressive press for accurate reloads ?
 
"as USUAL poor definition of the question.
DEFINE THE WORD COMPETITION."


what part of "define the word competition?
don't you understand "
works fine for cowboy action shooting

rebs said:
what part of the question don't you understand ?
How many of you guys use a progressive press for accurate reloads ?
Click to expand...
 
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