Stats To Determine Strengths and Weakness’s 600yd Benchrest

[BartsBullets]

One big thing that stands out is the difference between LG agg in the morning and the HG agg. That tells me the shooter’s tune isn’t correct. It’s much better for LG then HG.

This is one of the top shooters in 600 yards. My take is he is an excellent score shooter who’s gun is just mediocre most of the time.
Look at the two gun agg. Never did he have the best shooting gun in the field.

Bart

 

[C. Nichols]

Looks like he put a new barrel on after match 7 and started to get to the end of its life around match 14. Or got a 1000 new Bullets and shot em up in 7 matches. LOL just speaking from personal experiences here!

Chris Nichols

 

[BartsBullets]

It is pretty typical to shoot better early in the morning when you can see the target extremely well, before the sun starts getting the mirage kicked up! Not to mention the wind usually doesnt start to kick up until mid morning and builds til mid afternoon. That does not mean a guys rifle goes out of tune as the days goes on! With that noted, it does seem like someone will slip in the smallest group of the day when it seems conditions are at their worst? Maybe he just catches a more constant wind to get his 5 rounds down range? Samuel Hall

Sam

That’s an excellent point! However I think there’s a tendency in long range to blame conditions or themselves (the Shooter) for larger groups and aggs instead of considering it’s “Tune”! It’s a fairly common belief in long range shooting that once a gun is in tuned it stays that way. It certainly wouldn’t loose tune over the course of a day. I’ve heard this from several long range shooters. However, I see these long range guns drift in and out of tune just like short range guns.

Chris Nichols LG agg for the year was a 2.098 While his HG 1.861 (9 matches)! So Chris definitely figured how to tune for the afternoon and his HG is a certified Killer.

My personal stats between LG and HG are nearly identical with a 2221 LG and 2229 for HG (17 matches).

 

[BartsBullets]

Looks like he put a new barrel on after match 7 and started to get to the end of its life around match 14. Or got a 1000 new Bullets and shot em up in 7 matches. LOL just speaking from personal experiences here!


Chris Nichols

Chris,

The Above shooter has been a firm believer that 30 grains of varget in a 6BR is the load. I think his load got better as the temps increased! So the load/tune came to him. Then abandoned him when it got hot.

Bart

 

[C. Nichols]

Chris,

The Above shooter has been a firm believer that 30 grains of varget in a 6BR is the load. I think his load got better as the temps increased! So the load/tune came to him. Then abandoned him when it got hot.

Bart

Very true. I find I and most others have to manipulate our guns/ammo through the course of the day. That’s why I always want to know if we’re shootin LG or HG first so we know what form of manipulation we need. Now, how well you know your equipment is how you sometimes are able to have just enough edge to gain a couple spots in the line up. With that being said sometimes nothing you do works! LOL

Chris

 

[BartsBullets]

Now take a look at Chris Nichols stats. There’s no holes in his game. It’s high scores and low Aggs!

 

[SHall]

I have thought back over my 16 years of 600 yard shooting. My first few years I only shot a straight 6BR in both LG and HG. With both those rifles, I shot a hot load of R-15 or N-203B. I never really went out of tune with those rifles thoughout the year. Then I experimented with the blown out versions like the BRX, BRDX, Dasher, but mainly shot Dashers for many years. I never really did any better with the Dasher than I did with my BR. I guess I kept shooting it because of the hype that surrounded it. It did seem like I could get it in tune easier? But looking back now, I always lost tune completely with the blown out improved BR’s about in June. And sometimes again if it got even hotter. I never had to retune with my straight BR’s. I always did with the Dasher. I was shooting A LOT back then. 4- IBS 600 Yard SOY’s in a row, 3 Nats, 14 World Records. About half of those stats were shot with a BR, half with a Dasher. Then I put on my training BRA or I called it the 6BR-AI in 2015. I have not been able to shoot in competition as much since then because of that damn cancer, but what I am seeing in early testing and since is that the 6BR-AI is like the std BR and does not suffer from having to be re-tuned like the Dasher when hotter weather approaches. But it seems easy to tune like a Dasher, but has a wider tune window. I believe the void in the powder column with the shoulder blown out BR versions (Dasher etc) is why it is easier to loose tune with temp/humidity changes. Not that the BR-AI is perfect and every barrel will be different. Now, if some great Dasher shooters from this year like Jeff Godfrey and Chris Nichols decide to come over to the dark side, we all will be in greater trouble! LOL! Samuel Hall

 

[boltfluter]

Bart,

Yes, I can confirm that you are really bored!

Paul

 

[BartsBullets]

I have thought back over my 16 years of 600 yard shooting. My first few years I only shot a straight 6BR in both LG and HG. With both those rifles, I shot a hot load of R-15 or N-203B. I never really went out of tune with those rifles thoughout the year. Then I experimented with the blown out versions like the BRX, BRDX, Dasher, but mainly shot Dashers for many years. I never really did any better with the Dasher than I did with my BR. I guess I kept shooting it because of the hype that surrounded it. It did seem like I could get it in tune easier? But looking back now, I always lost tune completely with the blown out improved BR’s about in June. And sometimes again if it got even hotter. I never had to retune with my straight BR’s. I always did with the Dasher. I was shooting A LOT back then. 4- IBS 600 Yard SOY’s in a row, 3 Nats, 14 World Records. About half of those stats were shot with a BR, half with a Dasher. Then I put on my training BRA or I called it the 6BR-AI in 2015. I have not been able to shoot in competition as much since then because of that damn cancer, but what I am seeing in early testing and since is that the 6BR-AI is like the std BR and does not suffer from having to be re-tuned like the Dasher when hotter weather approaches. But it seems easy to tune like a Dasher, but has a wider tune window. I believe the void in the powder column with the shoulder blown out BR versions (Dasher etc) is why it is easier to loose tune with temp/humidity changes. Not that the BR-AI is perfect and every barrel will be different. Now, if some great Dasher shooters from this year like Jeff Godfrey and Chris Nichols decide to come over to the dark side, we all will be in greater trouble! LOL! Samuel Hall

The 2017 600 yard SOY shot a 6BR and 30 grs of Varget all year. He also did very well at the Nationals. But when you look at his stats he pretty much kicked butt In LG in the morning then sucked in the Afternoon in Heavy, at nearly every match. So was his gun tuned the best it could be for the day?

The days where a shooter can sit on one load all year and be competitive are coming to an end. To do so will take a barrel with a humongous load window. Or some extremely stable powder which I haven’t seen yet.

Bart

 

[SHall]

The 2017 600 yard SOY shot a 6BR and 30 grs of Varget all year. He also did very well at the Nationals. But when you look at his stats he pretty much kicked butt In LG in the morning then sucked in the Afternoon in Heavy, at nearly every match. So was his gun tuned the best it could be for the day?

The days where a shooter can sit on one load all year and be competitive are coming to an end. To do so will take a barrel with a humongous load window. Or some extremely stable powder which I haven’t seen yet.

Bart

Bart,
I surrender! What is the answer? It has to be either a tuner or load at the match like short range. Or maybe bring a propane oven and an ice chest to heat and cool your preloaded ammo. LOL. I did use to bring an ice chest for my BR ammo when it got to hot during the day and put it on the dash of my truck in direct sunlight when the temps were cold. It worked! Samuel Hall

 

[BartsBullets]

Bart,
I surrender! What is the answer? It has to be either a tuner or load at the match like short range. Or maybe bring a propane oven and an ice chest to heat and cool your preloaded ammo. LOL. I did use to bring an ice chest for my BR ammo when it got to hot during the day and put it on the dash of my truck in direct sunlight when the temps were cold. It worked! Samuel Hall

You got to maintain tune and tune is directly related to velocity.

Bart

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Its been more and more common over the last 5 years or so to load at the range at Deep Creek. I would say all the top contenders load on site. Bring your campers! Set up your bench inside. I tried bringing powder in vials but that was a pain. I brought my hood press, A&D scale, and even the Bench Source. Sure is nice to be able to change anything you want at the range. Once your ammo is loaded you can still tweak the tune by warming or cooling the loaded ammo. Key is knowing your barrel and which way you went out of tune. My experience is a little different in that tune is not directly tied to velocity.

 

[BartsBullets]

Its been common practice to load at the range at Deep Creek for about 5 years. Bring your campers! Set up your bench inside. I tried bringing powder in vials but that was a pain. I brought my hood press, A&D scale, and even the Bench Source. Sure is nice to be able to change anything you want at the range. Once your ammo is loaded you can still tweak the tune by warming or cooling the loaded ammo. Key is knowing your barrel and which way you went out of tune. My experience is that tune is not directly tied to velocity however.

Alex,

Interesting! What do you see tune tied to?

Bart

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Bart, I will say across the board with all the different types of rifles I shoot that the target is the only thing that tells the truth all the time. I have had barrels that wanted me to chase velocity for a time, then change and decide a powder charge was what to chase while velocity changed. I think a lot of us trashed our chronys after chasing our tails. I only started watching speed again since the lab radar came out and its so easy, but nothings changed, I still only tune with the target. Thats just what I see. I am sure there are combos out there that respond well to a velocity, I have just been burned enough by doing that I cant trust it.

 

[BartsBullets]

Bart, I will say across the board with all the different types of rifles I shoot that the target is the only thing that tells the truth all the time. I have had barrels that wanted me to chase velocity for a time, then change and decide a powder charge was what to chase while velocity changed. I think a lot of us trashed our chronys after chasing our tails. I only started watching speed again since the lab radar came out and its so easy, but nothings changed, I still only tune with the target. Thats just what I see. I am sure there are combos out there that respond well to a velocity, I have just been burned enough by doing that I cant trust it.

My take is ALL combos as far as tune are based on velocity. Tune your rifle no matter the combination get it shooting in a hole. Increase the load till it goes out of tune. Then decrease the load till it goes out of tune. That is your window. If your velocity goes above or below that window, It will not shoot. Depending on the barrel it might be a large window or it could be a small one. But it’s all based on velocity.

Bart

 

[Alex Wheeler]

My take is ALL combos as far as tune are based on velocity. Tune your rifle no matter the combination get it shooting in a hole. Increase the load till it goes out of tune. Then decrease the load till it goes out of tune. That is your window. If your velocity goes above or below that window, It will not shoot. Depending on the barrel it might be a large window or it could be a small one. But it’s all based on velocity.

Bart

Once you find that speed window, you find that window is the same day to day through the barrel's life? Assuming no component changes of course.

 

[BartsBullets]

Once you find that speed window, you find that window is the same day to day through the barrel's life? Assuming no component changes of course.

For the most part yes. Occasionally with a big change in weather, particularly it getting colder. The window can shift to a lower node. The size of the window will be the same.

Bart

 

[Alex Wheeler]

For the most part yes. Occasionally with a big change in weather, particularly it getting colder. The window can shift to a lower node. The size of the window will be the same.

Bart

I have seen the window move day to day. Thats really what I was trying to say. So I will agree to disagree there, but your 100% right that this game is all about tune

 

[BartsBullets]

I have seen the window move day to day. Thats really what I was trying to say. So I will agree to disagree there, but your 100% right that this game is all about tune

Ive taught this to a few shooters that were willing to listen and pay attention. Once they grasp the concept it was an Eye opener!

2 Gun Agg is an indicator of how your gun/tune stacks up against the field for the entire day. I had a three match streak where I had gun trouble. I figured it out and got it fixed. For most of the year I had pretty much had one of the best shooting guns in the field.

For 136 targets my 2 Gun Agg is 2.269 ( good bad and the ugly)! Just like tuning at 100 yards, you can agree to disagree but it’s working for me. Second SOY in a row and 2 more records. Just say’in

Bart

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I heard you cant tune at 100yds