Criterion .223 Savage Prefit Barrel Plans and Freebore

[IowaGeologist]

Lets look at sierra load data for a 90 match king valkerie 27 grain re 17 =2690 fps. 223 ai. 27.2 gr re 17 = 2810fps

I shoot 69 gr tmk at 3250. Winchester brass.

You're going by 224 Val published data made for AR freebores? Did you not read what I wrote above regarding 224 in a bolt vs gas gun? The numbers you listed have a COALs of 2.260" (AR mag restriction) vs 2.430". It's an apples to oranges comparison.

You might be interested in this tread over on Snipers Hide.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/224-valkyrie-bolt-gun-testing-review.6935618/

90 Gr VLD at 2910

At the end of the day, you're comparing a cartridge with an additional 2-2.5 gr of case capacity to another. Which surprisingly, is about the capacity difference between a normal 223 Rem and 223 AI and yields about a 100-150 fps difference.

 

[6xcshooter]

What ever. I don’t need a valkerie all my 223ai bullets go in one hole half that size.

p.s. Kinda interesting that within .2 of a grain of the same powder the ai is 120 fps faster. As my earlier post shows.

 

[IowaGeologist]

What ever. I don’t need a valkerie all my 223ai bullets go in one hole half that size.

p.s. Kinda interesting that within .2 of a grain of the same powder the ai is 120 fps faster. As my earlier post shows.

I never said you need a "valkerie" or that that 223AI isn't doing everything you need it to. But making blanket statements like "it's inferior to the 223AI" while making apples to oranges comparisons isn't helping anyone. I linked what people are actually getting with the 224 Valkyrie loaded long in a bolt gun, not what Sierra lists on a free phone app. Do what you will with that information.

 

[6xcshooter]

223ai still better

 

[IowaGeologist]

223ai still better

You're making one heck of a case for it.

 

[SLAYIN'SWEDE]

I shoot a 26” 223 match CBI on my PRS trainer and it absolutely hammers with 77gr RDF’s @ 2990fps

 

[fatelvis]

I shoot a 26” 223 match CBI on my PRS trainer and it absolutely hammers with 77gr RDF’s @ 2990fps

What does the neck in your chamber measure? I'm finding that I need to turn the necks on Lapua brass in mine. Winchester brass is ok though.

 

[Hohn]

I am planning this purchase from Northland:
.223 Criterion 28" Stainless Match Barrel, 1 in 7" Twist, Match Chamber, NSS Varmint Contour, 11-Degree Target Crown.
I do want to run 75-80 grain bullets. Northland has advised that the Match Chamber has a 0.090" freebore, which should be perfect for the 75-80's.
Any suggestions for changes from what is listed above?

I just ordered something like this almost exactly from Jim @ NSS yesterday. Only I opted for the 5/8-24 thread and 26" because the only things he had in stock over 26" were full bull and that would be too heavy. I don't think a 26" is giving up a ton of MV compared to 28 or even 30 because .223 just doesn't have that much powder.

My 12FV came with a 26" varmint and it's a known to me-- heavy but capable of shooting offhand if needed. Still works great on the bench or prone. If the stock twist was 7 instead of 9, I probably would have kept it.

I'm planning to run 75 ELDs while exploring 85.5, 88s, and even 90s perhaps. I'm thinking 3k fps might be possible with 75s. And for midrange FTR and such, perfectly usable.
H

 

[Indiana6547]

Yep, I agree with everything you state above. I had to wait about 2 months for my 28" MTU in 7 twist. I have only loaded 75 grain Hornady ELD's thus far, but just ordered some 75 grain Berger VLD's. Best I can do with the ELD's is about 1/2" - 3/4" for 5 shot groups at 100 yards. But, they stabilize and that was not the case with the factory barrel. Rifle is below:

 

[Hohn]

That MTU profile looks awesome.

The 75 ELDs wouldn't stabilize in my 9 twist 12FV either. Oval holes even at just 100y. 73s seem stable, but not especially accurate. The 73 ELD load that my AR will shoot clean at 300y is at best 1.5" in my Savage. I'm dropping down to 69s for the 9 twist until my CBI arrives.

The barrel will complete my .223 that would technically be FTR legal:

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Recently I built a Remington 700 in .223. If you want to shoot 75 to 80 grain bullets, then you should have a 1/8 twist barrel. Started out at 26 inches long and after a mishap at the range, became 22 inches. Loaded with 21.8 grs of Vargat and 80 gr Berger target bullets. The only gun in my safe that will beat it is my 6 PPC. Velocity is right around 2550 FPS.

It seems to me that most shooters put too much in getting the most velocity out of their loads. I don't check velocity until after I have attained the most accurate groups.

 

[Hohn]

What ever. I don’t need a valkerie all my 223ai bullets go in one hole half that size.

p.s. Kinda interesting that within .2 of a grain of the same powder the ai is 120 fps faster. As my earlier post shows.

That's to be expected as a smaller case volume with the same charge weight, I'd think. To me, the stronger argument for 223ai vs valkyrie is brass availability and quality. Build an AI and fire form the cheapest high quality brass in the world of centerfire shooting. Or go Valkyrie and be stuck with a niche case that seems already to be dying off. Why would you run a 224V in a bolt gun when you can run a 22 creed or 22x47 or any number of superior performers that have better brass to boot? Or a 22BR, 22PPC, etc etc.

The 224V really only does one thing-- makes an AR15 have a high BC 22 cal cartridge. Outside that constraint, there are superior options depending on platform. But if a guy wants a 224V, go for it. Maybe he doesn't criticize someone else for recognizing its limitations and deciding otherwise as he does.

 

[Hohn]

Recently I built a Remington 700 in .223. If you want to shoot 75 to 80 grain bullets, then you should have a 1/8 twist barrel. Started out at 26 inches long and after a mishap at the range, became 22 inches. Loaded with 21.8 grs of Vargat and 80 gr Berger target bullets. The only gun in my safe that will beat it is my 6 PPC. Velocity is right around 2550 FPS.

It seems to me that most shooters put too much in getting the most velocity out of their loads. I don't check velocity until after I have attained the most accurate groups.

View attachment 1165120

Very nice shooting, Sir! I don't even own a chrono for the reason you mention-- velocity<accuracy. I'm happy to have ordered the 7 twist because I'm hoping to not *just* shoot 75 and 80s, but 85, 88, and 90s. I think the hornady 88 might be a viable FTR bullet and want to try it out. The form factor it has is only bested by the 75ELD, the 85.5 Berger, and the 90 A-tip of the "big four" bullet makers in heavy .223.

 

[IowaGeologist]

That's to be expected as a smaller case volume with the same charge weight, I'd think. To me, the stronger argument for 223ai vs valkyrie is brass availability and quality. Build an AI and fire form the cheapest high quality brass in the world of centerfire shooting. Or go Valkyrie and be stuck with a niche case that seems already to be dying off. Why would you run a 224V in a bolt gun when you can run a 22 creed or 22x47 or any number of superior performers that have better brass to boot? Or a 22BR, 22PPC, etc etc.

The 224V really only does one thing-- makes an AR15 have a high BC 22 cal cartridge. Outside that constraint, there are superior options depending on platform. But if a guy wants a 224V, go for it. Maybe he doesn't criticize someone else for recognizing its limitations and deciding otherwise as he does.

Why would you run a 224V in a bolt gun when you can run a 22 creed or 22x47 or any number of superior performers that have better brass to boot? Or a 22BR, 22PPC, etc etc.

Again, to preface this I'll say I have a 223 AI and love it. No 224V and not sure I'll ever get one. But regarding this - There are tradeoffs. Why not run a 22-284? Because while it preforms better than those you listed, there are tradeoffs like barrel life, recoil, and component cost. A lot of people would love to run a 22 Creedmoor, but it isn't as practical as something like a 223 Rem. There is no free lunch, people have to select a cartridge that will do what they want with what tradeoffs they can stomach. I run a 223AI because I want a little more speed than a 223 Rem. If I wanted just a hair more performance, I'd run a 224 Val. As you mentioned, I'd have to be prepared for less quality brass, needing a 6.8 SPC boltface, etc.

The 224V really only does one thing-- makes an AR15 have a high BC 22 cal cartridge.

Not necessarily. As others are seeing, the 224 V loaded long (over 2.260" AR length) in a bolt gun can do great things, pushing it just over a 223AI in performance with 85-90 gr class projectiles. Is the small bump in performance worth it? Up to you, it isn't for me right now.

Outside that constraint, there are superior options depending on platform.

Of course there is, but again, you're sacrificing something. Whether it's powder, barrel life, brass, etc.

But if a guy wants a 224V, go for it. Maybe he doesn't criticize someone else for recognizing its limitations and deciding otherwise as he does.

I hope this wasn't directed at me. If anything, I've stressed I'm not saying people need to get a 224V over an AI, or that it is "better". Again, I love my AI and don't see myself making the switch.

But I wanted to provide real world data of the performance people are getting with a 224V loaded long in a bolt gun. Not published data limited to gas guns with magazine length restrictions that some people on here are using to make uniformed blanket statements about "AI is better".

 

[Hohn]

Horses for courses. Choose your course and your horse and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.