Winchester LE ammo for hunting

[PBking51]

What a day! (I hope you can find some humor in my story, but I promise my question is at the end, haha)

The PA rifle deer season starts this coming Saturday and though I still plan on my Pre-Thanksgiving Dinner tradition of checking the zero on my 3 go-to hunting rifles , I had the opportunity to sneak out to the range today with my new "walking" rifle. Its a Remington 600 in 308 with a HS Precision stock and a VXIII 2.5-8x32 on top in low Talley rings. 6lbs 14oz loaded.
I ditched the open sights and cheap bottom plastic, as the stock utilizes an ADL trigger guard, but kept the vent rib...because That's what drew me to this model early on.

I planned on doing a quick bore site and get it zero'ed in with a load of 150 Accubonds that my Ruger RL, also with an 18" Barrel, loved. I know all guns are different, but I figured I'd at least have a 1.5-2" group at 100, which is all I wanted to accomplish, and all the range I can see while walking the woods when my feet get cold.

So around 3:30 I get to the range, that's about a 20 minute drive from my house with the gun in a case that has a pouch, which I had the ammo in. As I finish up my look-through bore sight job, I notice I DON'T HAVE MY AMMO.
-I quickly remember that I took a round out to make sure it chambered in the gun so I know if I could actually use it...and must have forgotten to put the box back in my gun case.
Luckily for me my parents live 2 miles away from the range, and I had turned my teenage bedroom into a gun room when I moved out some time ago. I went looking for a factory box of hornadys just to find out I had 2 rounds left...however, I noticed I had 4 unopened boxes of this "Winchester Ranger Match, Law Enforcement Only" 168 GR HPBT, probably from the mid 80's.

I remember buying the stuff at an auction for $8/box about 10-15 years ago, but being in a pinch, I decided this was the perfect time to try it out.

Long story short...………………………….
I had 2 shots before I was in the 1" sticker @ 50 yards and then placed a second (for good measure) almost completely inside the last shot. I made a little adjustment up, hoping to be 1.5" high at 100 yards and moved onto the same 1" style dot at 100Yards. I had only let the barrel cool as long as it took me to put up a target at the 100 and walk back, but it was 30* with a hefty 8-10mph wind, so the barrel was already cool. My next 3 shots (@ 100 yards) fit inside a Penny, exactly 1.5" high, dead nuts above the dot.

My question is, does anyone know what exactly bullet they may have used in these "168 GR HPBT" loads? Punching nice holes in paper is one thing, and a heart shot will kill a whitetail from any centerfire gun regardless of ammo for sure, but not knowing what these will do upon impact and in regards to expansion, have me weary. What's the consensus on using these if they were made for match shooting. I've never had such a pleasant experience quickly sighting in a rifle with factory ammo that produced a great accurate group in only 7 shots fired. But, I don't want that turn into a 2 hour long tracking session if my shot is a little far back and just pencils through the liver, or explodes on impact if I hit the front shoulder (my go to shot with the 30-06). It is a hollow point so maybe by design it will expand and transfer energy to game and not shed too much weight?

I spent a while searching for a picture, but finally found one of what the ammo looks like.

 

[nicholst55]

I'm guessing they're 168 Sierra Natch Kings, which IMHO are totally unsuitable for deer hunting. An acquaintance had purchased an ammo can full of USGI M852 Match ammo, loaded with the SMK, for cheap several years ago. He persisted in hunting with it, year after year, because he was a cheap SOB. The ammo performed miserably on whitetails, often requiring 3-5 shots to kill. Maybe he was just a poor shot (very likely), but that certainly soured me on using the 168 Sierra MK on deer.

 

[Pheasanthunter]

What a day! (I hope you can find some humor in my story, but I promise my question is at the end, haha)

The PA rifle deer season starts this coming Saturday and though I still plan on my Pre-Thanksgiving Dinner tradition of checking the zero on my 3 go-to hunting rifles , I had the opportunity to sneak out to the range today with my new "walking" rifle. Its a Remington 600 in 308 with a HS Precision stock and a VXIII 2.5-8x32 on top in low Talley rings. 6lbs 14oz loaded.
I ditched the open sights and cheap bottom plastic, as the stock utilizes an ADL trigger guard, but kept the vent rib...because That's what drew me to this model early on.

I planned on doing a quick bore site and get it zero'ed in with a load of 150 Accubonds that my Ruger RL, also with an 18" Barrel, loved. I know all guns are different, but I figured I'd at least have a 1.5-2" group at 100, which is all I wanted to accomplish, and all the range I can see while walking the woods when my feet get cold.

So around 3:30 I get to the range, that's about a 20 minute drive from my house with the gun in a case that has a pouch, which I had the ammo in. As I finish up my look-through bore sight job, I notice I DON'T HAVE MY AMMO.
-I quickly remember that I took a round out to make sure it chambered in the gun so I know if I could actually use it...and must have forgotten to put the box back in my gun case.
Luckily for me my parents live 2 miles away from the range, and I had turned my teenage bedroom into a gun room when I moved out some time ago. I went looking for a factory box of hornadys just to find out I had 2 rounds left...however, I noticed I had 4 unopened boxes of this "Winchester Ranger Match, Law Enforcement Only" 168 GR HPBT, probably from the mid 80's.

I remember buying the stuff at an auction for $8/box about 10-15 years ago, but being in a pinch, I decided this was the perfect time to try it out.

Long story short...………………………….
I had 2 shots before I was in the 1" sticker @ 50 yards and then placed a second (for good measure) almost completely inside the last shot. I made a little adjustment up, hoping to be 1.5" high at 100 yards and moved onto the same 1" style dot at 100Yards. I had only let the barrel cool as long as it took me to put up a target at the 100 and walk back, but it was 30* with a hefty 8-10mph wind, so the barrel was already cool. My next 3 shots (@ 100 yards) fit inside a Penny, exactly 1.5" high, dead nuts above the dot.

My question is, does anyone know what exactly bullet they may have used in these "168 GR HPBT" loads? Punching nice holes in paper is one thing, and a heart shot will kill a whitetail from any centerfire gun regardless of ammo for sure, but not knowing what these will do upon impact and in regards to expansion, have me weary. What's the consensus on using these if they were made for match shooting. I've never had such a pleasant experience quickly sighting in a rifle with factory ammo that produced a great accurate group in only 7 shots fired. But, I don't want that turn into a 2 hour long tracking session if my shot is a little far back and just pencils through the liver, or explodes on impact if I hit the front shoulder (my go to shot with the 30-06). It is a hollow point so maybe by design it will expand and transfer energy to game and not shed too much weight?

I spent a while searching for a picture, but finally found one of what the ammo looks like.View attachment 1140599

IMO accuracy first (sounds like you have it) second bullet placement= venison for the table

 

[PBking51]

So @Pheasanthunter you are saying just get the right shot placement and dont worry about it?

 

[people]

Shot placement is always key. I have had good luck with the 168gr smk the few times I used them.

 

[Pheasanthunter]

Shot placement is always key. I have had good luck with the 168gr smk the few times I used them.

So @Pheasanthunter you are saying just get the right shot placement and dont worry about it?

I think the HPBT bullet you have should be just fine IMO

 

[snert]

I culled deer with Federal match 168 MK. It tended to put one small hole in the ribs nearest me and one two inch hole in the ribs on the other side, sometimes a smaller one next to it. The bullets that went into heads went out of heads. The results were dead deer. Not the greatest bullet, and I wouldnt try to shoot a north bound deer from the south bound end, but they kill fine. i have about twenty dead ones and that was enough to make me stop worrying about it.
the chest shot ones generally humped up and ran about thirty yards before the brain knew the body was dead. The head shot ones....no brain to know.

 

[PBking51]

Just as I figured. I only intend on stalking with the gun so If I do my part it be heads and well placed shots..I still have intent to use the accubonds, but anything less than an inch wont fly. Part of me hopes they shoot just as well, part of me knows they wont

 

[Bocephus]

What a day! (I hope you can find some humor in my story, but I promise my question is at the end, haha)

The PA rifle deer season starts this coming Saturday and though I still plan on my Pre-Thanksgiving Dinner tradition of checking the zero on my 3 go-to hunting rifles , I had the opportunity to sneak out to the range today with my new "walking" rifle. Its a Remington 600 in 308 with a HS Precision stock and a VXIII 2.5-8x32 on top in low Talley rings. 6lbs 14oz loaded.
I ditched the open sights and cheap bottom plastic, as the stock utilizes an ADL trigger guard, but kept the vent rib...because That's what drew me to this model early on.

I planned on doing a quick bore site and get it zero'ed in with a load of 150 Accubonds that my Ruger RL, also with an 18" Barrel, loved. I know all guns are different, but I figured I'd at least have a 1.5-2" group at 100, which is all I wanted to accomplish, and all the range I can see while walking the woods when my feet get cold.

So around 3:30 I get to the range, that's about a 20 minute drive from my house with the gun in a case that has a pouch, which I had the ammo in. As I finish up my look-through bore sight job, I notice I DON'T HAVE MY AMMO.
-I quickly remember that I took a round out to make sure it chambered in the gun so I know if I could actually use it...and must have forgotten to put the box back in my gun case.
Luckily for me my parents live 2 miles away from the range, and I had turned my teenage bedroom into a gun room when I moved out some time ago. I went looking for a factory box of hornadys just to find out I had 2 rounds left...however, I noticed I had 4 unopened boxes of this "Winchester Ranger Match, Law Enforcement Only" 168 GR HPBT, probably from the mid 80's.

I remember buying the stuff at an auction for $8/box about 10-15 years ago, but being in a pinch, I decided this was the perfect time to try it out.

Long story short...………………………….
I had 2 shots before I was in the 1" sticker @ 50 yards and then placed a second (for good measure) almost completely inside the last shot. I made a little adjustment up, hoping to be 1.5" high at 100 yards and moved onto the same 1" style dot at 100Yards. I had only let the barrel cool as long as it took me to put up a target at the 100 and walk back, but it was 30* with a hefty 8-10mph wind, so the barrel was already cool. My next 3 shots (@ 100 yards) fit inside a Penny, exactly 1.5" high, dead nuts above the dot.

My question is, does anyone know what exactly bullet they may have used in these "168 GR HPBT" loads? Punching nice holes in paper is one thing, and a heart shot will kill a whitetail from any centerfire gun regardless of ammo for sure, but not knowing what these will do upon impact and in regards to expansion, have me weary. What's the consensus on using these if they were made for match shooting. I've never had such a pleasant experience quickly sighting in a rifle with factory ammo that produced a great accurate group in only 7 shots fired. But, I don't want that turn into a 2 hour long tracking session if my shot is a little far back and just pencils through the liver, or explodes on impact if I hit the front shoulder (my go to shot with the 30-06). It is a hollow point so maybe by design it will expand and transfer energy to game and not shed too much weight?

I spent a while searching for a picture, but finally found one of what the ammo looks like.View attachment 1140599

Pretty certain Sierra would not condone their use, but my experience indicates that we can successfully utilize any combo that does NOT include a "loose nut behind the scope."
Keep that element out of the equation and it is almost certain you will enjoy jerky this Thanksgiving season.
Blessings to all!

 

[Bocephus]

What a day! (I hope you can find some humor in my story, but I promise my question is at the end, haha)

The PA rifle deer season starts this coming Saturday and though I still plan on my Pre-Thanksgiving Dinner tradition of checking the zero on my 3 go-to hunting rifles , I had the opportunity to sneak out to the range today with my new "walking" rifle. Its a Remington 600 in 308 with a HS Precision stock and a VXIII 2.5-8x32 on top in low Talley rings. 6lbs 14oz loaded.
I ditched the open sights and cheap bottom plastic, as the stock utilizes an ADL trigger guard, but kept the vent rib...because That's what drew me to this model early on.

I planned on doing a quick bore site and get it zero'ed in with a load of 150 Accubonds that my Ruger RL, also with an 18" Barrel, loved. I know all guns are different, but I figured I'd at least have a 1.5-2" group at 100, which is all I wanted to accomplish, and all the range I can see while walking the woods when my feet get cold.

So around 3:30 I get to the range, that's about a 20 minute drive from my house with the gun in a case that has a pouch, which I had the ammo in. As I finish up my look-through bore sight job, I notice I DON'T HAVE MY AMMO.
-I quickly remember that I took a round out to make sure it chambered in the gun so I know if I could actually use it...and must have forgotten to put the box back in my gun case.
Luckily for me my parents live 2 miles away from the range, and I had turned my teenage bedroom into a gun room when I moved out some time ago. I went looking for a factory box of hornadys just to find out I had 2 rounds left...however, I noticed I had 4 unopened boxes of this "Winchester Ranger Match, Law Enforcement Only" 168 GR HPBT, probably from the mid 80's.

I remember buying the stuff at an auction for $8/box about 10-15 years ago, but being in a pinch, I decided this was the perfect time to try it out.

Long story short...………………………….
I had 2 shots before I was in the 1" sticker @ 50 yards and then placed a second (for good measure) almost completely inside the last shot. I made a little adjustment up, hoping to be 1.5" high at 100 yards and moved onto the same 1" style dot at 100Yards. I had only let the barrel cool as long as it took me to put up a target at the 100 and walk back, but it was 30* with a hefty 8-10mph wind, so the barrel was already cool. My next 3 shots (@ 100 yards) fit inside a Penny, exactly 1.5" high, dead nuts above the dot.

My question is, does anyone know what exactly bullet they may have used in these "168 GR HPBT" loads? Punching nice holes in paper is one thing, and a heart shot will kill a whitetail from any centerfire gun regardless of ammo for sure, but not knowing what these will do upon impact and in regards to expansion, have me weary. What's the consensus on using these if they were made for match shooting. I've never had such a pleasant experience quickly sighting in a rifle with factory ammo that produced a great accurate group in only 7 shots fired. But, I don't want that turn into a 2 hour long tracking session if my shot is a little far back and just pencils through the liver, or explodes on impact if I hit the front shoulder (my go to shot with the 30-06). It is a hollow point so maybe by design it will expand and transfer energy to game and not shed too much weight?

I spent a while searching for a picture, but finally found one of what the ammo looks like.View attachment 1140599

Never saw a recommendation for a 308-155gr A-max as a bear bullet, but on a double lung shot this one worked. 101gr after the trip.
"Best bullet I own is the one in the chamber."

 

[snert]

Just a little anecdotal update. My buddy using my 308 handload 155 gr Palma took a 140 pound doe yesterday. Hit shoulder just back of joint, busted through and took out lungs and nearly took off other leg at shoulder. I told him I am coming to think we overgun for deer. I know, heresy, but that stupid doe ran a hundred yards on three wheels and no lungs, and was trying to get up when he got to it. When I culled deer (30) with a 220 Swift and 22-250 shooting 55 grain vmax, I had exactly one deer go forty yards full tilt after a chest hit and she tumbled like a rabbit hit with a load of 6's when her air ran out. EVERY other deer dropped on the spot or hopped about three hops before collapsing. I would find the typical hole going in, slush and mush in the chest, dozens of holes in the other ribs from bullet and ribs, and sometimes an exit, but seldom. No trailing because they were piled up right there. Now, a caveat. Every one was selectively taken with a broadside rib shot while at rest. It was the most humane kills i ever made on deer in my mind.
There was nothing wrong with the 155 Palma performance, by all the usual measures. Except it seems like too much, or too little of something? Not trying to stir a pot, but I am just seing field results that might indicate that we are still thinking whitetails are built with armor.