Developing a load for 6 Creedmoor. What would you do next?

[SGK]

Action: Defiance Deviant Elite (CRF) DLC finish, 20 MOA rail
Stock: Manners T4A Elite Tactical
Barrel: Bartlein heavy palma, cut to 26", 4R, 7.75->7.5 twist
Trigger: Bix 'n Andy Tac Sport Pro
Scope: Kahles 1050 MOAK
Mount: Spuhr SP-3001
Gunsmith: Dana English
Brass: New Lapua SR turned to 13 thou
Powder: RL16
Bullet: Berger Hybrid Match 105 gr
Primer: CCI BR4

I finally got this new build to the range on Saturday. The conditions were crap - building blustery wind and, luckily just as I was leaving, rain. But it wasn't stinking hot for a change. My goal was simply to get the rifle sited in and, while do that, do a simple single shot powder ladder looking for pressure signs.

So I had 15 rounds loaded at touch from 38 gr to 40.8 gr in 0.2 gr increments. QuickLoad suggests 41.2 is max safe load. Not sure why I didn't load 41.0 or 41.2; likely I just reached a round number on my 5 x 10 loading block and thought I'd reach excess pressure signs before the end of the run. I didn't. Brass looks good and no noticeable hard bolt lift.

Basically I'm wondering how far back down from 40.8 gr (if anything) I should start a group-based powder load test. I suspect good results are more likely to be found closer to max load. Where would you guys start?


PS I must say that this is my first non-sporter rifle and it (and the caliber) was a pleasure to shoot. I'm really looking forward to shooting it more.

 

[varget204]

i'd start around 2930-2950 fps,see what barrel likes,I shot 105's,w/ 40.8 H-4350 at [ 3030-3050 fps],depends on distance and velocity you are looking for.Expect 20+ reloads on Lapua brass [minimum]

 

[garandman]

Some say to start with seating depth first.

 

[jepp2]

I suspect good results are more likely to be found closer to max load. Where would you guys start?

Did you measure your velocities?
Here were the results of my ladder for your powder but with VLD-H bullet.

 

[Rtheurer]

Personally I don't really... Really start load development and get in the weeds until the barrel has around 100 rounds on it. Not sure about anyone else here but every barrel I have owned speeds up in velocity until about 100 rounds give or take, then they settle down and are consistent. While I am getting rounds on the barrel I get the scope on the rifle and zeroed, work with some powder to find out what Max pressure is like you did in your first test. Get my new brass fire formed.
Then.. that's when I work tuning the rifle using my Chrono, combined with a Ladder test, then onto seating depth testing.
Right or wrong that's how I do it. How I like to do it. so that's what I do.

What powder did you use? ( oops I see you used R16)

 

[JimSC]

Using 107 SMK's, Rem 9 1/2 primers and H4350 I did the Berger seating test from .100 from the lands to dead on then a charge test from 37.0 to 39.5 gns. I found a node that gives 10 round groups under a MOA at 800 so I never bothered fine tuning it

 

[lb-ft]

105
RL19
Alpha SRP
CCI SR MAG primers

Lights out in factory Ruger 6 Creed

 

[SGK]

Stupidly I did not record the velocities, even though I was shooting over a Two-Box Chrono. I couldn't see my first shot, post bore sighting, on paper at 100. That sent me into a flap, bringing the target forward to 50 yds etc. Turns out it went high, through the frame for my Shotmarker. An inch lower and I would have seen it. So it took me a few more rounds than usual to get zeroed (I was also shooting to a load development target without a grid and so judging adjustments wasn't as easy as normal.) I then just enjoyed shooting the last few of the 15 rounds and dialing it in. I simply forgot to write down the velocities.

Yeah I'm conscious I have new brass and a new barrel and things will need to be refined later. But I also want to avoid a large round count getting things figured out. Sounds like I needn't look below 40 gr. Also, I should recycle my brass so as to be using 2-3x fired relatively soon so as to take that factor out of the equation. (I can then form the rest with a "known good load.")

@garandman It's been recommended to me to only do a seating depth test once you know you're 'in the zone' on powder. That doesn't mean you've perfected the powder charge as changing seating depth will cause a change in the optimal powder charge but simply that there is little use doing the seating depth test with a powder charge that is a long way away from the optimal level. So as @Rtheurer suggested, these early rounds are good for seeking an more approximate powder charge level.

 

[garandman]

@garandman It's been recommended to me to only do a seating depth test once you know you're 'in the zone' on powder. That doesn't mean you've perfected the powder charge as changing seating depth will cause a change in the optimal powder charge but simply that there is little use doing the seating depth test with a powder charge that is a long way away from the optimal level. So as @Rtheurer suggested, these early rounds are good for seeking an more approximate powder charge level.

I hear ya. In another forum I was brutally attacked and mocked for *not* doing a seating depth test very first. So I'm trying that now. With really bad results. Granted, its a sample size of 1 bullet / powder combo.

I found a seating depth of 10/15 off the lands that got me to a half inch at 26.0 gr of CFE223. Then I did some charge weight testing at increments of 0.2 grain. Best group I got was 0.75" (at 26.2 gr CFE) and it got worse from there. Bad as 1.5" at that seating depth.

Historically, I've always done powder charge first and seating depth later. With good results. Sample size of 3 bullet / powder combos.

 

[nmkid]

Historically, I've always done powder charge first and seating depth later. With good results. Sample size of 3 bullet / powder combos

Worked for me for 40+ years.

 

[garandman]

Worked for me for 40+ years.

Worked for me for 10... until some folk (in another forum) who assured me they are reloading geniuses mocked and belittled me for not doing seating depth first.

 

[gman47564]

any body that tells ya their way is the only way doesn't have a clue... theirs lots of ways to skin this cat... best thing to do is find the way that works for you through trial and error... change one thing at a time and pay attention to the effects it has...

 

[Ranger188]

I agree with gman. I've seen the disagreements over on SH with @garandman, it's a waste of time.
I've had a few with people that I've had actual numbers and they still argue, because they have never tried it
and won't change, but they think their ways are always right.

To the OP's question (SKG). Make sure you have more than 60 rounds down the barrel (maybe more)
before you start any meaningful loads.
Your barrel could speed up enough to throw off a great load at 50 rounds to a crappy load at 80 rounds.
You have great equipment. Look at the case bottom and see if you see any ejector marks. Looks like a
rectangle mark, about the size of one of the letters on the bottom of the case. Pressure sign
THIS IS WHAT WORKED IN MINE, yours might vary.
High end is using the RL16 = 3140fps pretty warm load. Barrel won't last forever at that rate.
Theirs another node in the 3080 fps range and again in the low 3000
If you have any other questions just ask. @gman and I have gone thru 5-6 barrels shooting the 6 creed.

 

[garandman]

I agree with gman. I've seen the disagreements over on SH with @garandman, it's a waste of time.
I've had a few with people that I've had actual numbers and they still argue, because they have never tried it
and won't change, but they think their ways are always right.

Thats the one.

I am not even top 25% in terms of experience in reloading.

But if someone trieds to tell me I what I did, that actually worked isn't true or valid simply bcuz they or other "experts" disagree.... I'm sorry....but gotta go with my own first hand experience / testing.

My take.... there are VERy few "universals" in the firearms world. If it worked.... then it worked.

 

[SGK]

Cheers guys. I just loaded another 35 rounds. 5 each at 40.0, 40.2, 40.4, 40.6, 40.8. Three each at 41.0 and 41.2. I will pay particular attention when it comes to those last 6. Plus 4 foulers. That will take my total round count to 50 and I will cycle that 50 for a second firing before shooting the other 50 I have.

 

[SGK]

Did you measure your velocities?

I made it to the range on Saturday. Temp was 73-78F. Shot 5 rounds each of 40.0gr, 40.2gr, 40.4gr, 40.6gr and 40.8gr and three rounds each of 41.0gr and 41.2gr. All sot over my Two Box Chrono.

40.0: Avg 3041.0, SD 4.3 ES 7
40.2: Avg 3059.8, SD 5.6 ES 10
40.4: Avg 3093.6, SD 12.14 ES 32
40.6: Avg 3109.0, SD 9.72 ES 23
40.8: Avg 3132.6, SD 6.95 ES 12
41.0: 3147, 3149, 3137
41.2: 3167, 3160, 3167

In the higher loads I started to get a scuff mark on the case head. See pics. It doesn't seem to be in the typical place for excess pressure signs? I feel like I should stick to 40.0 and do a seating depth test. Barrel has 50 rounds through it now.

 

[Bc'z]

I like the horizontal of 40.8, it looks to be half of 40.0.
I'd probably play with seating depth a lil bit then come back and fine tune the powder.
This will get you more rounds down the barrel and possibly save in tuning time.

 

[fatelvis]

Load with all the same components, except non-turned necks and 7 1/2 primer, and 40.0 grains works beautifully for me in competition, and is relatively mild, hopefully extending barrel life a little. Try the Sierra 107. You may be very impressed with accuracy.

 

[David Christian]

@SGK, as mentioned above. I would use the first 100-200 rounds down the barrel to work on other stuff besides testing (scope mounting, fire forming brass, marksmanship, etc.). Only after the barrel settles down will I do testing, once, and be dialed in, dead nuts, no questions asked. Testing early has proved nothing to me.

 

[SGK]

I agree re getting more rounds down the barrel. I'm just hoping to learn something as I go along. Any thoughts on the scuff marks on the case head? They are hard to pick out with the naked eye let alone photograph. They first appeared on an occasional case at 40.4gr.

Also, is "heavy bolt lift" something that is entirely obvious? There's obviously a lot of cam action to recock the bolt. I'm wondering if this is a subtle thing or a "you'll know it when you get it thing."