Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover

[Prose]

So....I just called Bore Tech to get their comments.

Their rimfire blend (my primary interest) has a "short term" rust preventative... that will last 1-2 months. When you patch out the barrel immed prior to shooting, their tech said you'll get a light brown film that is not rust, its actually the dried rust inhibitor. (Seems this could be tested by letting the product dry on a non-oxidizing surface. Then wipe with a clean white cotton patch.)

For longer term storage they have a product called "Shield."

Seems like a quick easy step to push a oil patch down the barrel "just to be sure."

He also recommended their bronze phosphate brushes over any nylon brush.

Don't shoot the messenger (me)

Hmmm,

Well after cleaning away the brown layer of "rust preventative", the metal was tarnished as if it had rusted, and no longer smooth which is consistent with what I would identify as the results of having been rusted...

If their rust inhibitor turned brown after drying, I would give their claim an ear, but it only does so after many weeks in an environment where rust is likely to form, almost as if their rust inhibitor oxidizes over time to prevent rust?

Using NO OIL will not cause rust after two months in my test, but using bore-tech does. So their rust preventative is not as effective as doing nothing at all.

 

[garandman]

Hmmm,

Well after cleaning away the brown layer of "rust preventative", the metal was tarnished as if it had rusted, and no longer smooth which is consistent with what I would identify as the results of having been rusted...

If their rust inhibitor turned brown after drying, I would give their claim an ear, but it only does so after many weeks in an environment where rust is likely to form, almost as if their rust inhibitor oxidizes over time to prevent rust?

Using NO OIL will not cause rust after two months in my test, but using bore-tech does. So their rust preventative is not as effective as doing nothing at all.

I can't speak to the variables / validity of your test, but I know I'll be running an oil patch down my bore after using Bore Tech stuff.

 

[Tim s]

IOSSO is a polish. Polishing the barrel seems like a bad idea.

Do you know what you are commenting on??
IOSSO as in green/white is a polish, IOSSO as in red/white, which,
I would assume, is being referenced here is a bore cleaner.
While it is very mildly abrasive, it has remained a primary carbon remover primarily via chemical means.
The relatively newish Thorough Clean system offered by Bullet Central serving the precision rifle community, works wonderfully well and is ultimately IOSSO in a proprietary solution followed up with a flushing liquid.
The owner is a top flight benchrest guy and I suspect he is aware what should or should not be used in a barrel.

That said, for pure, hard carbon, such as a carbon ring or in the throat of a rimfire.....the C4 works, better IMHO.

 

[garandman]

Do you know what you are commenting on??
IOSSO as in green/white is a polish, IOSSO as in red/white, which,
I would assume, is being referenced here is a bore cleaner.
While it is very mildly abrasive, it has remained a primary carbon remover primarily via chemical means.
The relatively newish Thorough Clean system offered by Bullet Central serving the precision rifle community, works wonderfully well and is ultimately IOSSO in a proprietary solution followed up with a flushing liquid.
The owner is a top flight benchrest guy and I suspect he is aware what should or should not be used in a barrel.

That said, for pure, hard carbon, such as a carbon ring or in the throat of a rimfire.....the C4 works, better IMHO.

See the rest of my posts, here.

 

[Prose]

Would anyone, for any reason, ever run a patch wet with water through their bore and then claim it's a rust preventative because it took two weeks for the barrel to visibly corrode?

From their literature, here are lies or omissions that they market... italics mine

- These surfactants also effectively neutralize all corrosive residues preventing barrel damaging rust and corrosion.
Failure to remove the surfactants and letting them dry could allow damaging rust and corrosion.

In the first step, the Cu+2 Copper Remover rapidly oxidizes and breaks down copper fouling by reconfiguring its electronic state. Once the copper fouling is oxidized in step one, a specially enhanced binding agent within the Cu+2 Copper Remover’s formulation acts like a magnet capturing the copper and rendering it unable to redeposit in the firearms bore.
So it creates an ion layer, what do you suppose are the chances that water in the air is attracted to it after the bore it dried?

will not etch or harm barrel steels and can be safely left to soak in the bore for an infinite period of time.
Soaking means to keep it wet. Do not let it dry in your bore.

rapidly oxidizes copper fouling and suspends it in the cleaning solution, rendering it unable to redeposit onto the barrel surface
Unless of course, you leave it their and the oxidized material ----continues to oxidize after it dries

Just dampen your last patch with Eliminator and your bore will be protected against rust and corrosion for up to 2 weeks.
This is snake-oil-speak for YOUR BARREL WILL RUST AFTER TWO WEEKS!

For extended storage or in adverse conditions apply Bore Tech Friction Guard XP Gun Oil.
What is there normal conditions? A vacuum in a lab? Again, use oil if storing more than two weeks.

6) Before storing firearm, dampen a patch with C4 Carbon Remover and push through bore. This will protect against rust/corrosion for up to 2 weeks under normal storage conditions.
7) For extended storage or in adverse conditions apply Bore Tech Friction Guard XP Gun Oil.
Will cause your gun to rust if not oiled.

Before storing firearm, dampen a patch with Cu+2 Copper Remover and push through bore. This will protect against rust/corrosion for up to 2 weeks under normal storage conditions
For extended storage or in adverse conditions apply Bore Tech Friction Guard XP Gun Oil.
Will cause your gun to rust if not oiled.

Bore tech is an awesome product, but their marketing is pure BS. I've never accused anyone of anything on this website (except Fguffey) but they are lying on their bottle about rust prevention. Boretech is mostly water, and water causes metal to rust, period. All they gotta do is write "Oil after each use" and they have a perfect product.

 

[snakepit]

if you run a dry patch through the bore after cleaning, why would it matter if the chemical had water in it?

I agree with what you said. I have been using the C4 Carbon Remover since it came out on numerous rifles with no rust problems. I do dry patch it until I have had several dry patches come out clean and dry. Don't know why someone would not make sure they have dry patched all the C4 out. I just ran my Hawkeye bore scope through 9 rifles which were all cleaned with C4 some of which were cleaned and dry patched with C4 and lightly oiled and some which were dry patched and not lightly oiled before putting them in one of my gun safes and no sign of any rust. A couple of the rifles have not been fired in a couple of years.

 

[garandman]

So… we got one guy who has done some extensive work testing the product and says it allows rust.

And we have another guy who has tested it on several of his rifles extensively and says he sees no rust.

So who do you believe?

Hard to say. So many variables apply to both scenarios that it's hard to draw definitive conclusions

 

[Prose]

Here's another guy that seems to have an eye for good products.

1. BoreTech Eliminator is indeed effective. We also found that is it NOT friendly to fire control parts, and can cause rapid corrosion of some metals. Make sure you keep this stuff out of your bolt and trigger group. I think there are equally effective products that are less hostile to your action's interior.

Before I got to your last paragraph, I said to myself "Hmm, is this guy using Bore Tech Eliminator?"

Then I read your words "I used Bore Tech Eliminator". I guffawed.

I won't EVER use that stuff again. It got into some of our rimfire actions, rusted the bolt and trigger.

For most cleaning I use Wet patches with Carb-out, then WipeOut.

Surfaces are protected with Eezox spray or liquid on patch. I find Eezox to be VERY effective if you do a couple applications. Here's one long-term Salt test.

The problem is with humid environments, hence their description of "Normal Storage Conditions"​

 

[snakepit]

Experience. Tested it on barrel stubs after reading about it.

In my test, at 40% humidity, it took about 4 weeks for rust to form. At 55% it was two weeks. After two months the entire interior surface was uniformly surface rusted on both. Control with no oil (and no boretech) had no rust. Of course the oiled one was not rusted.

In your testing did you just leave the barrel stubs wet with C4 or did you dry patch them as the directions call for and most of us do. Seems like the best way to test something would be in the real world conditions and procedures that you would normally follow in cleaning a barrel.

 

[Prose]

They got dry patched

 

[Rustytigwire]

Boretech
Hobo

 

[garandman]

They got dry patched

If you fully dry patched was any bore tech actually left on the rifling surface?

 

[shoot4fun]

Here's another guy that seems to have an eye for good products.

The problem is with humid environments, hence their description of "Normal Storage Conditions"​

Forum Boss is specifically talking Boretech ELIMINATOR. This thread is specifically talking Boretech C4 Carbon Remover. FB may have a good eye but maybe you should stay relevant to the thread at hand?

 

[shoot4fun]

I have used BT C4 for at least three years and have never seen an issue with corrosion. That said, I will say that after cleaning the bore gets two to three dry patches and a follow up with one patch of Kroil before it goes back in the safe.

 

[K22]

There are only three absolutes in cleaning rifles - (1) the cleaning process must remove the carbon build up, (2) the cleaning process must remove the copper fouling, (3) the cleaning process must not damage the bore or crown.

Everything else in conjecture or speculation so I can only relate my personal experience.

After a lot of research I switched to Bore Tech Products (namely C4 and Cu+2) about 2 years ago after using Shooter's Choice for about 30 years. My reason for searching for a new solvent was the odor produced by Shooter's Choice was bothering my boss, the wifey. Since I shoot all year around the winter cleaning was especially troublesome since the force air system pushed the odor throughout the house. The wifey developed a sensitivity to it.

I was pleasantly surprise by Bore Tech's Products performance. The carbon remover is awesome. I clean with it first then dry patch. I use a bronze brush since I believe the mechanical action of the bronze brush is beneficial in preventing carbon ring formation. I've recently been experimenting with Dewey 22 cal pistol brushes in rifle cleaning since these significantly reduce the amount of force needed to push the brush through the bore. After C4 I follow with a three patches of Cu+2 and let set the specified dwell time.

I can say without any doubt that these products do a superior job in removing carbon and copper. I was so impressed with them that I tried their Rim Fire blend for my center fire revolvers since I shoot a lot of cast lead bullets. Again, I was pleasantly surprised - this product is far superior to anything I've tried in the past for removing lead plus like C2 and Cu+2 it's odorless.

 

[garandman]

@K22 ... same with my wife. Hates ANY odors. Ballistol was the worst. Montana Extreme was almost as bad. Bore Tech is odorless. Butchs Bore Shine was first formulated by the Nazis for use in their gas chambers. Hoppes actually smells good.

How a solvent cleans is of primary importance. But smell is A clear 2nd . And if momma aint happy , aint nobody happy.

 

[K22]

@K22 ... same with my wife. Hates ANY odors. Ballistol was the worst. Montana Extreme was almost as bad. Bore Tech is odorless. Butchs Bore Shine was first formuted by the Nazis for use in their gas chambers. Hoppes actually smells good.

How a solvent cleans is of primary importance. But smell is A clear 2nd . And if momma aint happy , aint nobody happy.

I often thought about using Hoppe's No. 9 as after shave but wifey vetoed it. I still can recall the smell of it as my father cleaned his 30-30 Model 94 Winchester after deer season. In those days it was Hoppe's No. 9 and only No. 9. I keep a bottle around and stiff it from time to time to bring back those fond memories of my father - a great hunter - better than I'll ever be but I keep trying.

 

[garandman]

Just dry patched my bbl ... cleaned with Bore Tech this past Tues, stored in dehumidified safe.. a little carbon.



Just followed up with a lightly oiled patch, anyway... I like this Vudoo too much to roll the dice.

 

[rammac]

I've used Bore Tech products since they came out and have never had any problems with rust.

I suspect that the people who are having problems with rust don't recognize that all metal that has been cleaned of any lubricant will rust under the right conditions. Bore Tech C4 will clean the metal of everything. The best conditions for rust are when the temperature reaches the dew point, in the mid west that can happen fairly easily. So if you have a clean barrel and the temperature is close to the dew point then it's a pretty good chance that your barrel will rust.

 

[shoot4fun]

Just dry patched my bbl ... cleaned with Bore Tech this past Tues, stored in dehumidified safe.. a little carbon.

View attachment 1131322

Just followed up with a lightly oiled patch, anyway... I like this Vudoo too much to roll the dice.

Not to derail this thread but Vudoo #2 got here yesterday.