SCOPE DURABILITY?

[antelopedundee]

I have an older Redfield Golden 5 star scope. What's the likelihood that it won't get destroyed if it gets put onto a muzzleloader? I know that rifle scopes aren't generally advised to be used on shotguns or air rifles because of the type of recoil. What about muzzleloaders? Ok to use on one or not?

 

[garandman]

Muzzleloaders / BP generally recoil softer than smokeless due to a slower burn rate.

 

[antelopedundee]

Muzzleloaders / BP generally recoil softer than smokeless due to a slower burn rate.

Yes, but is it the same kind of recoil that you'd have with a smokeless powder cartridge in a bolt action rifle? I'm told that air rifles have a "double" recoil which will eventually wreck a regular rifle scope since it wasn't designed to be used that way.

 

[longtrapshootn]

I've owned one for about 20 years. It's a middle of the road low end scope. Should be a bargain at $100 and a little pricey at $140. Check it for parralax. Some had a lot. Mines ok out to 200/300 yards. Mine is very clear.

 

[Outrider27]

Yes, but is it the same kind of recoil that you'd have with a smokeless powder cartridge in a bolt action rifle? I'm told that air rifles have a "double" recoil which will eventually wreck a regular rifle scope since it wasn't designed to be used that way.

The "double" recoil you are talking about isn't a characteristic of all air rifles, it is a condition unique to the "spring gun" type of air rifles (break barrel cocking, side lever, under lever), not pump guns or PCPs.It is caused by the motion of the piston when the rifle is fired - it slams in one direction when the pellet is fired, then slams back - two recoil directions for the price of one shot. Unless you are shooting that type of air rifle, you can forget about the effects of double recoil on a scope. On the other hand, scopes that are air rifle rated (a euphemism for spring gun air rifle rated) are very sturdy and stand up well in the general school of hard knocks.

 

[antelopedundee]

I've owned one for about 20 years. It's a middle of the road low end scope. Should be a bargain at $100 and a little pricey at $140. Check it for parralax. Some had a lot. Mines ok out to 200/300 yards. Mine is very clear.

A family member wants to use it on a muzzleloader. Will there be an issue with that down the road?

 

[garandman]

Yes, but is it the same kind of recoil that you'd have with a smokeless powder cartridge in a bolt action rifle? I'm told that air rifles have a "double" recoil which will eventually wreck a regular rifle scope since it wasn't designed to be used that way.

That's exactly the problem with some air guns. They have both the recoil of the Spring releasing and the Spring rebounding which sort of doubles the impact they put on the scope.

I've shot / own both the cartridge type black powder of an original 1884 Trapdoor Springfield and the loose powder with bullet you push down on to it with the ramrod from the original 1863 Springfield .

Both have the much milder recoil typical of black powder burn rate. Of course the quantity of powder is something you have to factor in that there is no way I or anyone can tell you whether that will or will not negatively impact your collectible scope.

If I were concerned about it, I would simply get a lower cost scope and mount to the gun.

 

[284winner]

A family member wants to use it on a muzzleloader. Will there be an issue with that down the road?

Tough to answer that question. I have a cheap Mueller scope on my muzzleloader that's been on it (10+years)ever since my muzzleloader trashed an expensive Nikon BDC scope after one year of use. I've had 3 mid range scopes ruined by muzzleloaders. This Mueller was around 150.00 and is hanging in there. The only way you'll know if your scope will work is to mount it and hope it lasts.

 

[antelopedundee]

That's exactly the problem with some air guns. They have both the recoil of the Spring releasing and the Spring rebounding which sort of doubles the impact they put on the scope.

I've shot / own both the cartridge type black powder of an original 1884 Trapdoor Springfield and the loose powder with bullet you push down on to it with the ramrod from the original 1863 Springfield .

Both have the much milder recoil typical of black powder burn rate. Of course the quantity of powder is something you have to factor in that there is no way I or anyone can tell you whether that will or will not negatively impact your collectible scope.

If I were concerned about it, I would simply get a lower cost scope and mount to the gun.

How "collectible" are these?

 

[garandman]

How "collectible" are these?

Somebody above said they're only about a 100 bucks.



Check gun broker for current market.

 

[antelopedundee]

Somebody above said they're only about a 100 bucks.



Check gun broker for current market.

Nothing listed at GB.

 

[284winner]

How "collectible" are these?

Back about 10 years ago I did some research on a 6-18 model 5 star. I think then, it came in around 250.00 and was in mint condition. Collectible is a relative term IMO. Some collect for monetary value and some collect for other purposes. I don't think it's something you'll regret putting on a muzzleloader even if it fails. Too me, it's worth more on a rifle when it survives recoil and maintains accuracy than sitting on a shelf making a few extra bucks.

 

[natdscott]

Muzzleloaders / BP generally recoil softer than smokeless due to a slower burn rate.

No, no they don't.

Projectile weight:

All else being equal, the "projectile" weight of a blackpowder/substitute fired round is SIGNIFICANTLY larger due to the unburnt/burning powder being pushed down the bore with the bullet.

I will 100% guarantee you 120 grains of FFFg and a 300 grain bullet will kcik the dog(*^t out of you, for the same speed, where...

42 grains of AA 2520 doesn't do dat.

 

[garandman]

No, no they don't.

Projectile weight:

All else being equal, the "projectile" weight of a blackpowder/substitute fired round is SIGNIFICANTLY larger due to the unburnt/burning powder being pushed down the bore with the bullet.

.

Every statement can be falsified if you try hard enough. Your comparison above is totally apples and oranges... 120 gr v. 42 gr... really? Try a 300 gr projectile with 120 gr smokeless... yer in Cheytac range... for equal projectile weights and equal powder charges black powder generally Burns slower than smokeless and recoils less.

"Generally"

 

[biggun2869]

When Redfield was alive they were in strict competition w/Leupold, and I considered them of equal quality. I've called Leupold as recently as 2-3 yrs ago and asked them about vari-XII on an airgun and they said absolutely. Don't know why they would encourage the use of them if they thought they would fail. I've gotten rid of all of my redfields because they are no longer under warranty. I'd sell it and get a Leupold, that way you're covered

 

[antelopedundee]

Back about 10 years ago I did some research on a 6-18 model 5 star. I think then, it came in around 250.00 and was in mint condition. Collectible is a relative term IMO. Some collect for monetary value and some collect for other purposes. I don't think it's something you'll regret putting on a muzzleloader even if it fails. Too me, it's worth more on a rifle when it survives recoil and maintains accuracy than sitting on a shelf making a few extra bucks.

I probably won't use it again, but I was contemplating giving it to a family member to put on his smokepole.

 

[284winner]

I probably won't use it again, but I was contemplating giving it to a family member to put on his smokepole.

Give it a go. May be the perfect scope for it. That's the bad part. You won't know till you try it. Unfortunately there is no warranty so it's rolling the dice

 

[natdscott]

Every statement can be falsified if you try hard enough. Your comparison above is totally apples and oranges... 120 gr v. 42 gr... really? Try a 300 gr projectile with 120 gr smokeless... yer in Cheytac range... for equal projectile weights and equal powder charges black powder generally Burns slower than smokeless and recoils less.

"Generally"

Every person on the internet can get on a forum, assign themselves a username, and then carry on as though they are an expert, with no further qualification. People then read what the "expert" says, and take it for gospel..

You've done some of that here on this forum, and you have extended past your experience level--visibly--on multiple occasions, with little ability to admit your inexperience, from what I've been watching unfold.

I cited the two loads because they produce similar exterior ballistics, and are therefore a PERFECT comparison. Apples to apples, if you choose that cliche.

I used both. Personally. Thor 300s and XTP mags, and blah blah....

-Nate

 

[garandman]

Every person on the internet can get on a forum, assign themselves a username, and then carry on as though they are an expert, with no further qualification. People then read what the "expert" says, and take it for gospel..

You've done some of that here on this forum, and you have extended past your experience level--visibly--on multiple occasions, with little ability to admit your inexperience, from what I've been watching unfold.

I cited the two loads because they produce similar exterior ballistics, and are therefore a PERFECT comparison. Apples to apples, if you choose that cliche.

I used both. Personally. Thor 300s and XTP mags, and blah blah....

-Nate

Smh. Classic ad hominem (characterizing the person) rather than making your case with logic and fact.

Bye.

 

[284winner]

Muzzleloaders / BP generally recoil softer than smokeless due to a slower burn rate.

I don't want to veer from the original question but I believe based on shooting muzzleloaders and rifles that the muzzleloader does in fact have as much recoil as a rifle. Slower push due to slower burn. My 50 caliber pushing 195s with 120 grains of loose triple 7 is equivalent to roughly my 270 w/150s. The .270 is a much faster recoil, snappier but in the end I believe the felt recoil (ft lbs felt) is similar. Of course on game, no recoil is felt. I went thru a pound of triple 7 one day at the range figuring out which weight charge and bullet shot best in my rifle. The following weekend I took a 308 to the range to do the same. I'd say it was very close in felt recoil with the 185s in my 308 also. Then there's the issue of scope endurance on muzzleloaders. They do not tend to last well on muzzleloaders. This makes me think that the recoil being different is harder on scopes. I've ruined 3 on my White muzzleloader. Each one lasted maybe 1-2 years. One I ruined shooting almost 60 rounds in one day at the range. There's something to it if they wreck scopes.