defiant/ pierce action worth it???

[jonny315]

Hello, I am contemplating buying a defiant, pierce or maybe a montana action (I love controlled round feed) as opposed to buying a model 70 and just reaming it out to a 300 prc.
do those actions really make a difference? I mean I can get sub moa all day with a factory model 70 im just wondering if it will be noticeable or if its really just a bragging rights thing. thank you

 

[ShootDots]

If you are contemplating using your rifle for say 400-500 yard and UNDER hunting, an "off the shelf" rifle, with a custom barrel, is all you would ever need. Now if you plan on going beyond that, gaining all the "edge" you can muster, is worth the time, money and effort you put into your project.

 

[Nature Boy]

Check out the Mausingfield before making your decision

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Im on the fence a bit. So far, I would say custom actions are just for 'bragging rights'.

I have a few and yet I can get factory rifles to shoot just as good with custom barrels. I have had issues with custom actions right out of the box. My Defiance wouldn't extract cases from the chamber and needed a new extractor claw. Defiance was great and replaced it right away, but I shouldn't have such elementary issues with an action I paid $1600 for.

Kelby's Atlas wont eject the cases from my dbm magazine due to a shitty ejection port design. I'm still trying to decide which route I want to take to get it working. Theres some mods I can make, but dont want to void the warranty. Need to talk to them before I go grinding away at it.

Never had any issues with a Rem 700 or other factory rig. Custom actions are beefier and stronger, but more accurate?...mmmm, I dont really think so. A good barrel, trigger, and quality hand loaded ammo is far more important in my opinion.

If you talk to some of the best riflesmiths in the country, they'll tell you that there aren't any custom actions that are perfectly straight and true. They all need truing just like factory actions if you want them perfect.

 

[D.Stone]

I think the Model 70 is a great action.

The only thing comparable is the Defiance because it can be had with a claw extractor and 3 position safety.

I have one on order and it should be done at the end of the month.

 

[dmoran]

...... Kelby's Atlas wont eject the cases from my dbm magazine due to a shitty ejection port design. I'm still trying to decide which route I want to take to get it working. Theres some mods I can make, but dont want to void the warranty. Need to talk to them before I go grinding away at it.

Never had any issues with a Rem 700 or other factory rig. Custom actions are beefier and stronger, but more accurate?...mmmm, I dont really think so. A good barrel, trigger, and quality hand loaded ammo is far more important in my opinion.......

Atlas action magazine wells are cut for Accuracy International single stack magazines.

You've been lucky if you've never had issues with factory rifles. Over the years I've worked on countless issues with almost all the mfg's. Some of the worse issues and the most amounts of different issues being Remington 700 rifles.

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[Ned Ludd]

I own a several Defiance Deviants and one Rebel action. They are noticeably "smoother" than a typical factory action. However, "smooth" doesn't necessarily always translate to better precision, even if it feels better when shooting. Although it is clearly possible to obtain outstanding precision with some factory actions, not every single one may be that good. Whether you would notice a significant improvement in either "feel" or precision with a custom action largely depends on your shooting ability and how good the factory actions are to which you'd be comparing it.

FWIW - I recently had a new rifle built on a Borden Rimrock BRMXD action and it is noticeably smoother than my Defiance actions. So there can be noticeable differences in "feel" even among custom actions. As with most things, your best bet is to try one of these actions out if at all possible, and see for yourself whether you think the "feel" is noticeably better. Again, whether improved "feel" in an action necessarily translates to better precision is arguable, but the precision aspect is more difficult to quantify until you actually own the action and can load for it yourself and shoot it.

I personally like my Defiance actions very much. I also like the Borden action very much. I don't think you'd go wrong with either one. Having said that, I also don't think you'd go wrong with a Panda, a Bat, or a couple other brands of custom actions, either.

 

[284winner]

It's obvious that the Defiance actions are outstanding actions, reading all the positive feed on this forum from guys that own them. I'll add that Pierce actions are also very fine actions. Maybe not as popular as other bigger name actions, you would not be disappointed in one. I had John do some work on barrels and actions for me being his shop is fairly close and decided to buy one of his actions years ago. I'm sure his actions are even finer today than when he began building them, mine is as nice as any other I own. I'm in agreement with the above statement on action accuracy. If a factory action is trued and straightened by a gunsmith, it will perform as well as any custom. You may have more into it but it will perform as good or better. That said, Pierce actions are smoother than any factory action and they are trued and as straight as can be. They are a Remington clone only I believe an 18TPI vs 16 unless that's changed. Custom actions are basically a one stop shop in most cases.

 

[Linko]

For what it's worth. Howa is releasing a 300 prc barrelled action later this year. Few hundred bucks. See Brownells.

 

[hogpatrol]

A member has an Alamo for sale, very reasonably priced. They're controlled feed made by Thompson-Leh and have the Remington footprint.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...-rifle-action-only-nib.3987798/#post-37587750

https://thompsonleh.myshopify.com/c...gen-3-slides/products/complete-tl700-action-1

 

[Larryh128]

Hello, I am contemplating buying a defiant, pierce or maybe a montana action (I love controlled round feed) as opposed to buying a model 70 and just reaming it out to a 300 prc.
do those actions really make a difference? I mean I can get sub moa all day with a factory model 70 im just wondering if it will be noticeable or if its really just a bragging rights thing. thank you

The big difference for me is a custom action is going to have a .062 firing pin that fits correctly, smooth as can be, and a really big plus for me is if they are nitrided. A nitrided body and bolt are awesome. Shoot better? Maybe. From what I've seen, once you have a good action, barrel, and trigger the big issue is the stock. My personal opinion is that the stock makes or breaks it. My personal favorite for being "shootable" is a GRS Berserk.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The most important part of a rifle is the action. Yes, more so than the barrel. Action issues will hold a rifle back its entire life. Buy a good one and have your smith check it out.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Short and to the point .
I have had a few Barnard Actions for Long Range Prone Shooting . Outstanding, they don’t break ...
I have a few Remington 700 Tuned Actions .
They perform at a equally well level .
Money can and is the question.

 

[MOA]

If you have a Remington action, by all means use it after getting it tried up, scope holes bored out and aligned, firing pine bushes, and possibly timed. If not just by a custom. I have some time behind a deviant and a nucleus. I'll never buy a remington again.
Win 70 is my favorite production action. Just have it blueprinted and run it. Doesn't need as much work as a remington.

 

[Sniper338]

Age old debate. I have a trued rem 700 gun that shoots as good as my defients. But by the time you get a factory action cleaned up and trued you coulda bought a lower end, yet still better quality action.

You either use a factory action and true it yourself to save the money in truing cost. Or you buy a lower priced custom action and save yourself the work.

 

[Evan]

You can buy a Ferrari or a Corvette. One is a nicer experience than the other regardless of what the advertised performance numbers might suggest. The Ferrari will also always be worth more secondhand. I bought a Corvette off Craigslist for 5 grand to gut and use to build my 53 with. There were no Ferraris available in that price range unfortunately.

I like Borden's, and if you buy a trigger from Jim too, he'll time it all up for you. Any of the high end actions are going to be great when a smith works them over.

 

[Kurz]

Age old debate.

I agree because it seems as if when we've gone past a few months without this topic coming it, it finally does. Has anything changed in the years we've been debating this? I think a few things have especially with the number of custom makers on board currently. But I also think we are skipping the important question and other derivative information.

What activity do you want the rifle to perform and what level of skill do you require to perform that activity?

There is such a diverse range of answers that we need to determine the answers to the specific questions. In general:

How much gun do you really need for the activity you choose to pursue?

This does get complicated quickly though when add in 'how much gun do we want?' And worse yet, how much do we want to afford? Deeper pockets escalate this part rapidly. Off the shelf $400.00 rifle compared to the top-of-the-line custom at $6,000 plus. That's a huge range!

The average American hunter harvests game in 200 yards or less. This is the guy just down the road who shoots maybe a couple of times year then goes to shoot his deer. Here we could make a case for using a factory Remington, Winchester or even a Savage. Howa has a big push on trying to sell barreled actions currently so they can fall into this category also. One inch at 100 yards is more than sufficient for this type of ideal.

After this comes the escalation of equipment and cost since that's the perception of improving accuracy. Getting into this race, it becomes a competition of spending money and staying married! Now it's Katy bar the door because this can get out of hand real quick! Guys willing and able to spend $10,000 on a gun and scope plus the front rest and rear rest, spotting scope along with all the reloading toys to make the best ammunition possible. Pushing the accuracy envelop by outspending the competition. Yes, this is a long way from the factory rifle used once or twice a year to harvest your deer. But this is the range of the question we're trying to respond to. Does the average American hunter/shooter need a $1,500 action plus all the adds, ups and extras just to shoot a couple of time a year? Not likely. But they may want it... The shooters at the extreme opposite end of the spectrum though need all the bells and whistles the custom manufacturers can produce. Look at the records being broken every year now from the tiny, tiny 100 yard groups from the benchrest folks to the 600 yard and 1,000 yard F-class and even further out to ranges we never dreamed of before the last 4 years.

Then along comes the guy who fields a Savage to win a world class long range competition... Who would've thunk it? It's this type of exception which clouds the decision making capability of most shooters. Everyone wants to special by being the exception. But these exceptions distort the answer to the basic question above.

I guess what I'm advocating is to clarify the use and sometimes the budget will help with this part. Also consider the source. We're reading a forum determined from the start to be about accuracy, in any form. So custom actions, custom barrels and all the accoutrements related to accuracy are fair game here.

 

[swd]

If you enjoy quality good custom actions are pleasure to use. Borden is the smoothest in timing right out of the box. And friction wise melonite is slick as hot butter. Bat and Borden are probably the two at the top of the list of best out of the box. You need to handle some of these actions, they are not all created equally. Montana's aren't all that smooth. Just new take on a M70/Masuer and is a lot closer to a production action. The price of going custom over a trued 700 or M70 is less than $1000. Will it make you a better shooter and hunter, probably not. If you like like leather interior, a/c and heated seats go custom. If you like roll up windows and vinyl seats stay factory. In the long run either will get you there..

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I still believe a shooters ability to tune loads properly to any given rifle is much more important than the action on the rifle. More importantly than that is the ability to KEEP a rifle in tune as barrel wear progresses. Most competitors use the best equipment, but those are always the guys you see at the top of the competition leader boards.

Also very important is the Smith that puts the barreled action together and their attention to detail during the process. If you use a sloppy Smith, you'll get a sloppy shooting rifle no matter how expensive the equipment. You use a very precision minded quality Smith, you will most likely have a rifle that shoots with excellent and consistent precision, even when using a factory action.

 

[284winner]

I agree because it seems as if when we've gone past a few months without this topic coming it, it finally does. Has anything changed in the years we've been debating this? I think a few things have especially with the number of custom makers on board currently. But I also think we are skipping the important question and other derivative information.

What activity do you want the rifle to perform and what level of skill do you require to perform that activity?

There is such a diverse range of answers that we need to determine the answers to the specific questions. In general:

How much gun do you really need for the activity you choose to pursue?

This does get complicated quickly though when add in 'how much gun do we want?' And worse yet, how much do we want to afford? Deeper pockets escalate this part rapidly. Off the shelf $400.00 rifle compared to the top-of-the-line custom at $6,000 plus. That's a huge range!

The average American hunter harvests game in 200 yards or less. This is the guy just down the road who shoots maybe a couple of times year then goes to shoot his deer. Here we could make a case for using a factory Remington, Winchester or even a Savage. Howa has a big push on trying to sell barreled actions currently so they can fall into this category also. One inch at 100 yards is more than sufficient for this type of ideal.

After this comes the escalation of equipment and cost since that's the perception of improving accuracy. Getting into this race, it becomes a competition of spending money and staying married! Now it's Katy bar the door because this can get out of hand real quick! Guys willing and able to spend $10,000 on a gun and scope plus the front rest and rear rest, spotting scope along with all the reloading toys to make the best ammunition possible. Pushing the accuracy envelop by outspending the competition. Yes, this is a long way from the factory rifle used once or twice a year to harvest your deer. But this is the range of the question we're trying to respond to. Does the average American hunter/shooter need a $1,500 action plus all the adds, ups and extras just to shoot a couple of time a year? Not likely. But they may want it... The shooters at the extreme opposite end of the spectrum though need all the bells and whistles the custom manufacturers can produce. Look at the records being broken every year now from the tiny, tiny 100 yard groups from the benchrest folks to the 600 yard and 1,000 yard F-class and even further out to ranges we never dreamed of before the last 4 years.

Then along comes the guy who fields a Savage to win a world class long range competition... Who would've thunk it? It's this type of exception which clouds the decision making capability of most shooters. Everyone wants to special by being the exception. But these exceptions distort the answer to the basic question above.

I guess what I'm advocating is to clarify the use and sometimes the budget will help with this part. Also consider the source. We're reading a forum determined from the start to be about accuracy, in any form. So custom actions, custom barrels and all the accoutrements related to accuracy are fair game here.

I'm on board 100% with your opinions and even facts on this subject. I will throw a BUT in there tho. But, we as gun lovers and enthusiasts have it in our blood to build the best we can afford. I don't think as a group we are like some gamblers that gamble away there house payment because they can't help it. We will build within our budget but build many of us will do. Regardless of the fact that a factory rifle is more than adequate for deer out to 200 yards. This is how I am and I believe many others. Sure I shoot alot of LR whether hunting or targets. Even tho some of my deer rifles won't ever send a bullet beyond 250 yards in wooded scenarios that I'm often in, I still build the rifle capable of taking that odd 800 yard shot if it's presented. Just how we as shooters, enthusiasts and perfectionists are wired.