Nirvana: Lilja 457 and Tenex lot testing

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee, I sent one of my V-22s (Krieger bbl that I fitted & chambered) out to the Lapua Test Center in Mesa, Az. last winter, and Daniel didn't find any Midas+ that shot as well as lot#601117 Center-X. Couldn't help but notice that your 20-shot group pic included the last four digits of the Center-X you shot the group with... I bought two cases of that lot from Capstone, and thankfully, it shoots just as good out of the Bartlein on my 2nd V-22 as it does out of the Krieger - and the Krieger on a 40XB repeater. Maybe Lapua was short on the number of lots of Midas+ on hand when my bbl'd action was there, but it doesn't hurt my feelings that my rifles liked $10/box ammo better than $14/box stuff...lol

When I went there this past February, we tested that lot and at first was told there was only a few bricks. however Dan rechecked the lot inventory after lunch and found they had 23000 rds. left I got 2 cases, even though it wasn't as good as the CX I found 2 years earlier. there was only 10-lots of Midas + and the best did only 12.42mm this 1117 did 11.68mm another lot of CX 1962 did 11mm out of my Anschutz I bought all of what was left 2-1/2 cases wish there was 23000 of that stuff.
I am hoping to go again in January or February, I have a new barrel on my Falcon and it really shoots, the very first 6-shot group without a tuner, fresh from the smith did 0.198 group with that 1117 lot, with a tuner I gotten 0.019 and the 1962 did a 0.010 so I have very high hopes of finding something even better.

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I am running Midas + in my V22 as it shoots better than the Center x. Im sub 0.3" at 50 yd. I am curious what you are getting.

With the mentioned lot of CX my Falcon will do sub-0.200 groups at 50yds. it has done a best 20-shot group of 0.190 at 50yds. with the same CX lot

Lee

 

[garandman]

With the mentioned lot of CX my Falcon will do sub-0.200 groups at 50yds. it has done a best 20-shot group of 0.190 at 50yds. with the same CX lot

Lee

I can do sub 0.2 5- shot group. But not consistently enuf.

Im more interested in overall average. For me, now, Im sub 0.3 with both my V-22 and Lilja barrelled CZ 457 in 30- shot grps.

This is with no wind flags. That's my next investment. And I am sure there is still some shooter error on my part I need to train out.

 

[garandman]

Im using an Atlas bipod up front and this rear bag..

 

[garandman]

So your rifle's can average sub-0.300 30-shot groups? when did you start to shoot 30-shot groups? I recall your 5-shot groups
not 30-shot groups, but for these 5 groups average is 0.084 shot with the same barrel that did the 20-shot group,ammo is CXView attachment 1126792



Lee

Nice groups.

I shoot 5 shots on 6 bulls eyes and take the average, measured c-t-c.

2 recent improvements I made are (1) to set parallax correctly and (2) change up my rear bag for greater stability.

 

[garandman]

This...

 

[garandman]

@Hi-NV Shooter .... do you find 5 fouler shots to be enuf on a clean bore? My Lilja barrel just recently did its best 5 shot on a clean bore, but that was a first.

Also... how many rounds b4 cleaning?

I hear LOTS of opinions on both.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

@Hi-NV Shooter .... do you find 5 fouler shots to be enuf on a clean bore? My Lilja barrel just recently did its best 5 shot on a clean bore, but that was a first.

Also... how many rounds b4 cleaning?

I hear LOTS of opinions on both.

The barrel will tell you how many fouling shots are needed. I am beginning to notice temperatures I shoot in also affects how many fouling shots are needed. but on average 3-6 are all that is needed for my barrels.

I deep clean after every range session (use a bronze brush and scrub the bore) at the range I run VFG pellets with 3- wet and 3 dry every 50-60 rounds. again your barrel will tell you what it likes

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Nice groups.

I shoot 5 shots on 6 bulls eyes and take the average, measured c-t-c.

2 recent improvements I made are (1) to set parallax correctly and (2) change up my rear bag for greater stability.

Got it, they are the average over 30-shots

 

[garandman]

@Hi-NV Shooter .... wondering what conditions you shot those 0.084" 5-shot groups.

For instance my best 30 shot avg with Eley Tenex (on my Lilja 457) shows a 0.29" grouping. Lot # 1018-01205

If you check the Eley Lot anayzer, done in their test lab, its shows larger groups than that....

https://www.myeley.com/lot-analyser/7600/result/imperial

I think, perhaps, Eley is under reporting their groups, so they don't get a buncha whiners calling them saying "You claim Tenex with shoot 0.xx groups, and my gun won't do that!! I'm suing!!!"

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

@Hi-NV Shooter .... wondering what conditions you shot those 0.084" 5-shot groups.

For instance my best 30 shot avg with Eley Tenex shows a 0.29" grouping. Lot # 1018-01205

If you check the Eley Lot anayzer, done in their test lab, its shows larger groups than that....

https://www.myeley.com/lot-analyser/7600/result/imperial

They were shot in a 5-6 mph 10'o-clock wind. can't remember the temperature but it was in October so probably in the high 70's, I was lot testing ammo. the Eley thing is a marketing ploy, I heard too many tried using it and got disappointing results. you have to remember those results are from their test barrels.

Lee

 

[garandman]

They were shot in a 5-6 mph 10'o-clock wind. can't remember the temperature but it was in October so probably in the high 70's, I was lot testing ammo. the Eley thing is a marketing ploy, I heard too many tried using it and got disappointing results. you have to remember those results are from their test barrels.

Lee

I got *better than* their lab test barrels. Go figger. And your goups are WAAAAYYY better than Eleys own 4 test barrels in perfect lab conditions. You need to go shoot on the US Olympic team. Or go tell Eley what they are doing wrong.

You use wind flags? I came across this....

 

[Tim s]

I can do sub 0.2 5- shot group. But not consistently enuf.

Im more interested in overall average. For me, now, Im sub 0.3 with both my V-22 and Lilja barrelled CZ 457 in 30- shot grps.

This is with no wind flags. That's my next investment. And I am sure there is still some shooter error on my part I need to train out.

Your “overall” average sub.30???? You just beat the majority of custom made benchrest rifles in the universe costing $5000......with a CZ???? For a club shooter with no windflags?
I mean, personally, I could care less, but if you put this stuff on public forums......please.
You want to learn about real world results, testing, and groups, go over to Rimfire Accuracy and avail yourself of the current threads by Jerry Stiller about building, chambering and testing guns you have never been within 100 yards of and you will see exactly why some of the stuff you post is ridiculous.

Color me wrong, if so, but taken at your word about testing results you are a national level competitor capable of killing purpose built BR rigs with a CZ.....impressive.

 

[garandman]

Your “overall” average sub.030????
some of the stuff you post is ridiculous.
.

Read more carefully. I said my groups are sub 0.3.

NOT 0.030. You even quoted my post where i said it.


My measurements are for my benefit. To measure my own progress. I compete against me. And c-t-c measurements (which I've given here) are pretty universally used. Beyond that...I've posted pics of my targets, if anyone is thinking I'm claiming to be a world class shooter. At 50 yards, 0.30" is NOTHING GREAT.

There is no need to be rude, sir. Stop trolling me.

Put me on ignore.

Problem solved.

 

[garandman]

Yes, .30” is what I meant ,and those pics are nowhere near that.

So you insult / attack me, and cant even correctly type what you meant?

And you know the size of my groups better than I do, When Im measuring them and you've never been within a 100 miles of my targets?

Whatever, pal. SMH.

Leave me alone. Ignore ALL my posts.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

@Hi-NV Shooter .... wondering what conditions you shot those 0.084" 5-shot groups.

For instance my best 30 shot avg with Eley Tenex (on my Lilja 457) shows a 0.29" grouping. Lot # 1018-01205

If you check the Eley Lot anayzer, done in their test lab, its shows larger groups than that....

https://www.myeley.com/lot-analyser/7600/result/imperial

I think, perhaps, Eley is under reporting their groups, so they don't get a buncha whiners calling them saying "You claim Tenex with shoot 0.xx groups, and my gun won't do that!! I'm suing!!!"

are these groups ctc or oto in other words are you subtracting the bullet hole from the group size? if you are your groups are actually bigger
for example a .290 ctc will be .513 oto that is slightly more than 1/2"

Lee

 

[garandman]

are these groups ctc or oto in other words are you subtracting the bullet hole from the group size? if you are your groups are actually bigger
for example a .290 ctc will be .513 oto that is slightly more than 1/2"

Lee

I measure largest outside distance and subtract .22

Again... its strictly a way of measuring my OWN progress.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I got *better than* their lab test barrels. Go figger. And your goups are WAAAAYYY better than Eleys own 4 test barrels in perfect lab conditions. You need to go shoot on the US Olympic team. Or go tell Eley what they are doing wrong.

You use wind flags? I came across this....

I use Graham flags and Dan Keeny indicators, the indicators IMO are the most contributing factor
But sighters are what I rely on, I shoot for score and groups are for testing only.
shooting for score is very humbling, just about anybody can get lucky and shoot really small groups, but when you have to move from one bull to the next with the wind blowing well, trust me it's not that easy

try shooting for score on an ARA, PSL or Ir50 target

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I measure largest outside distance and subtract .22

Again... its strictly a way of measuring my OWN progress.

I guess then if add back the .220 to the .290 the actual group size is .510, with all respect for guys like Tim and myself that wouldn't work, since we are shooting at a dot that measure about what a ink pen would leave as you dot the letter I

Lee