Do the bullets fly over or under the flags?

[Alexander-M]

Shortly after I started shooting F-Class five years ago, during a match, one of the shooters told me, “Those flags are way too low”, when looking at the flags on the 600-yard range, and then added, “the bullets go way higher than those flags.” I had been shooting for only a few weeks, and had no idea whether this was correct, but made a mental note to check it out. Not long after, I thought about how to calculate the path of the bullet on its way to the target.

Most of us have seen graphs of the trajectories of bullets, and how much they drop at these distances. But what these trajectories usually show is the path of a bullet fired from a rifle held essentially level, and not of a bullet fired while the rifle is aimed at a distant target.

This subject came up again during a recent match, in the form of whether the bullets go over or under the flags at the various distances. From what I have found, below, I venture to say that the bullets go under the flags in most cases.

When using a ballistic calculator to calculate the bullet trajectory if the rifle were to be held held level, we normally set the zero at 100 yards. Plotting the calculated drops at each distance in 100-yard increments, results in graphs such as the ones below, in RED, for a typical .308W bullet.

If, on the other hand, we set the zero at 1000 yards, the calculated elevation of the bullet at the various increments results in graphs as depicted in BLUE, below.

As you can see, the .308 bullet aimed at 600 yards reaches a maximum elevation of about 2-1/2 feet, and when aimed at 1000 yards, reaches just over 9 feet. Both maximum elevations occur about halfway to the target, whether 600 or 1000 yards. The drops, on the other hand, are quite larger at almost 7 and 27 feet.

Below are the graphs for a .284W at 1000 yards:

Does this sound about right?

Alex

 

[Monte F]

I get 103 (8'7") inches at 550 yds using my calculator for our range elevation (4200 ft.) and 70 degrees temp. So pretty close to you with same bullet and velocity. I had heard that about bullet flying at the top or higher than the flags before. One of our shooters explained that is not the case and I did as you, checked the flight curve on the ballistic calculator.
Monte

 

[prwhite]

Does this sound about right?

Yes...and at most ranges the flags are too high

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Looks to me like the 284 when on target at 1000yds the bullet will be 7.36ft above the bore at 550yds so plan accordingly

 

[Tempest]

And...at many ranges flags lie anyway.

 

[Medic505]

And...at many ranges flags lie anyway.

And at the rest of the ranges on earth, the mirage lies..... take your pick.

Or maybe that was the excuse I used for a poor performance.

 

[ngb1787]

Why dont you just shoot at ur target next to a pole of flags, question answered, lol

 

[farmerjohn]

I listened to one hell of a an argument one night over what diameter a pipe would have to be to shoot through it for a thousand yd, bench at one end target at the other. Then it turned to what if the ground wasn't level from one end to the other.
I learned a lot from that...
John

 

[Rube Shooter]

And at the rest of the ranges on earth, the mirage lies..... take your pick.

Or maybe that was the excuse I used for a poor performance.

At the local 2000yd range I have seen the flags going 5+ different directions. I try to see what the mirage is doing close to target and go from there. I'm still learning the wind game and it's been a real eyeopener as I'm one who loves the hold over.

 

[watercam]

I just shot at a range where 3 of 4 flags are radically UNDER the path of the bullets as the targets are on an hill high above them. The only flag at the target height was at the impact area. In other words, there is minimal information to choose from. Mirage is the only hint you will see and the wind almost never runs in one direction. A challenge to be sure.

 

[swd]

Yes...and at most ranges the flags are too high

No wonder Niklas keeps kicking our butts. The flags must be at FTR height, lol

 

[SS GO DEVIL]

For example:
284 win 1000 yards you dial up 25 minutes
25 x 1.047 = 26.175” per 100 yds
26.175 x 10 = 261.75” at 1000
261.75/12 = 21.8 feet above line of sight.

 

[The Pumpkin]

For example:
284 win 1000 yards you dial up 25 minutes
25 x 1.047 = 26.175” per 100 yds
26.175 x 10 = 261.75” at 1000
261.75/12 = 21.8 feet above line of sight.

Short range the bullet is normally above flags. D

 

[1lnbrdg]

If you've ever shot 1,000 at Redcastle, you are definitely shooting over the flags.

 

[holstil]

I think the bullet is only about half of dialed moa. Bullet go up then down.

 

[6MMsteve]

I listened to one hell of a an argument one night over what diameter a pipe would have to be to shoot through it for a thousand yd, bench at one end target at the other. Then it turned to what if the ground wasn't level from one end to the other.
I learned a lot from that...
John

if Guffey was there you would know bout the shoulder height of the pipe for sure

 

[SS GO DEVIL]

In my example for long range the bullet is 21.8 feet above line of sight at apex of flight. Once you dial your elevation pull the bolt and look down the bore. It’s pretty crazy how much elevation it takes to make it to 1000 yards.

 

[SS GO DEVIL]

Now that i think about it, the bullet would only reach 21.8 feet if it was shot and there was no gravity and in a complete vacuum.

 

[Ned Ludd]

And...at many ranges flags lie anyway.

And at the rest of the ranges on earth, the mirage lies..... take your pick.

The answer is clear - the range flags and mirage are in collusion.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Now that i think about it, the bullet would only reach 21.8 feet if it was shot and there was no gravity and in a complete vacuum.

If there were no gravity the line of sight and the bullet's path would diverge increasingly, forever, after the bullet crossed the line of sight once, assuming the usual scenario where the barrel is pointed upward relative to the line of sight.

In a vacuum the bullet would not lose velocity. In air (but without gravity) the bullet would slow down but would still travel in a straight line along the bore's axis.