Accuracy of auto powder despencers ??

[Baddog0302]

Just how accurate are the powder despencers like the like the RCBS "Charge master, the Hornady, Lyman, F A, ect. since they all like like they are made by the same Manufacturer.
Accuracy = .1 gn, .01gn. ect.

 

[wkdickinson]

Just how accurate are the powder despencers like the like the RCBS "Charge master, the Hornady, Lyman, F A, ect. since they all like like they are made by the same Manufacturer.
Accuracy = .1 gn, .01gn. ect.

Here is a study I did of the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 shortly after purchasing it. My biggest issue with the Chargemaster is that the resolution of the scale is only 0.1gr, so theoretically if the firmware rounds up/down in the commonly accepted way, a scale reading of 44.4gr could weigh anywhere between 44.35 and 44.449gr. In my study I used a GemPro 500 as a check. That scale unfortunately only reads to 0.05gr.

It would be really interesting to see it checked with a laboratory quality scale.

That said, in Bryan Litz's book "Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting" V2, on page 132 he concludes the chapter on "Powder Measurement" with the statement "Weighing powder to 0.1 grains on a Chargemaster class scale is almost as good as weighing powder to the kernel on a Satorious scale, if you are in the ~10 fps SD range." Which means all of the rest of your loading variables are "in control". He goes on to say, that if you are searching for a 4-6 SD and everything else in your reloading regimen is correct, a Satorious might get you there...

For me, not shooting "X's" is more a mater of the shooter's capability, than the variable charge weights from the Chargemaster

 

[wkdickinson]

Here is a study I did of the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 shortly after purchasing it. My biggest issue with the Chargemaster is that the resolution of the scale is only 0.1gr, so theoretically if the firmware rounds up/down in the commonly accepted way, a scale reading of 44.4gr could weigh anywhere between 44.35 and 44.449gr. In my study I used a GemPro 500 as a check. That scale unfortunately only reads to 0.05gr.

It would be really interesting to see it checked with a laboratory quality scale.

That said, in Bryan Litz's book "Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting" V2, on page 132 he concludes the chapter on "Powder Measurement" with the statement "Weighing powder to 0.1 grains on a Chargemaster class scale is almost as good as weighing powder to the kernel on a Satorious scale, if you are in the ~10 fps SD range." Which means all of the rest of your loading variables are "in control". He goes on to say, that if you are searching for a 4-6 SD and everything else in your reloading regimen is correct, a Satorious might get you there...

For me, not shooting "X's" is more a mater of the shooter's capability, than the variable charge weights from the Chargemaster

Sorry, forgot to include the scale study

 

[Baddog0302]

Agree 100 %, The military used Maximum Effective range in describing a certain weapon. Civilized, that becomes ME, or the "master trigger linkage, ect.

 

[mikeinct]

I call my old Lyman, my goofy reloading buddy. I set it about 3/10's light of the desired charge. I check ever dose on a beam scale & trickle up from there. The old machine is famous for over throwing charge weight desired.. It was not one of my best purchases.. Mike in Ct

 

[Jimmy James]

My chargemaster has got a few years on it now and it is very erratic in weighing. SUpposed to be +/-0.1 grain. Sometimes it dead on at the programmed charge especially with stick pdr but other times it can be off as much as 1.3 grns. I bought a Newton 123 and then I bought the FX-120i with auto trickler. For the money you cant beat either 1. +/-0.02grn. TO do better you will have to spend $1200. I got my club to buy a LabRadar chrono and I have been blowing peoples minds showing them how to use it and them testing their match loads on it. ES 100fps+ and its all to do with what they are throwing and or weighing their pdr charges with.

 

[Baddog0302]

I call my old Lyman, my goofy reloading buddy. I set it about 3/10's light of the desired charge. I check ever dose on a beam scale & trickle up from there. The old machine is famous for over throwing charge weight desired.. It was not one of my best purchases.. Mike in Ct

Watched a few videos giving reviews of several of the auto powders, and everyone said the same thing at the end, set the amount less that you want , wait how ever long it takes to dribble out the powder, then use a powder trickier to fine tune to the desired amount.
OR, use a normal powder thrower, set it to throw lite, take about 5 seconds to throw, even with the "crunch" of some extruded powders, then trickle. OH wait, thats the same but you now have
$ 300.00+ dollars to buy bullets, power, primers, OR take the OWMBO out to some place nice for dinner. "HAPPY WIFE, HAPPY LIFE

 

[hogpatrol]

My experience with the RCBS unit, now about eight years old is plus or minus a half a grain.

 

[chevytruck_83]

Here is a study I did of the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 shortly after purchasing it. My biggest issue with the Chargemaster is that the resolution of the scale is only 0.1gr, so theoretically if the firmware rounds up/down in the commonly accepted way, a scale reading of 44.4gr could weigh anywhere between 44.35 and 44.449gr. In my study I used a GemPro 500 as a check. That scale unfortunately only reads to 0.05gr.

It would be really interesting to see it checked with a laboratory quality scale.

That said, in Bryan Litz's book "Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting" V2, on page 132 he concludes the chapter on "Powder Measurement" with the statement "Weighing powder to 0.1 grains on a Chargemaster class scale is almost as good as weighing powder to the kernel on a Satorious scale, if you are in the ~10 fps SD range." Which means all of the rest of your loading variables are "in control". He goes on to say, that if you are searching for a 4-6 SD and everything else in your reloading regimen is correct, a Satorious might get you there...

For me, not shooting "X's" is more a mater of the shooter's capability, than the variable charge weights from the Chargemaster

I recently purchased an fx-120i to verify weights thrown from my chargemaster. The majority of the time the chargemaster is pretty consistent. You can watch the kernels drop and interpolate where about your at between tenths. It does however wander quite a bit. Not sure if it’s related to the power supply or if it’s the chargemaster itself. So the fx-120i is a welcomed tool that has helped me get less flyers. So I will agree with Whidden that when the chargemaster is operating properly without wandering there’s little worth gaining from getting a more accurate scale. When it wanders it’s nice to have a tool that can double check it.

 

[CharlieNC]

In my experience the variability in the results on any system boils down to the precision of the trickling. The measurement system shows the result, but a better scale does not improve trickling. Of course integrating a better scale can help. Adding a small dispensing tip on the CM and slowing down the trickling rate via parameter tuning yields +/- .03gr charges, but very slowly. This and other evaluations proved to me that the electronics and programming are better than the 0.1 display resolution. But I get the same quality using a tuned beam, and five times faster. So I don't use these CM enhancements, and relegate its use to lesser demanding applications such as shooting steel.

 

[Rsadams]

You would be shocked at how fast even using the Lyman scoops ($20) then trickling up can be.... Trickling up is the best way no matter what in my opinion to be as close as you can be from one charge to another.... Find a scoop that's just under then trickle up on a balance scale...Done... I also agree with the post that 1/10 is far less important than say brass with very close volume or weight sorting bullets etc... BUT , to each their own.....

 

[Zero333]

You be the judge. Chargemaster thrown charge.

 

[ryanjay11]

Watched a few videos giving reviews of several of the auto powders, and everyone said the same thing at the end, set the amount less that you want , wait how ever long it takes to dribble out the powder, then use a powder trickier to fine tune to the desired amount.
OR, use a normal powder thrower, set it to throw lite, take about 5 seconds to throw, even with the "crunch" of some extruded powders, then trickle. OH wait, thats the same but you now have
$ 300.00+ dollars to buy bullets, power, primers, OR take the OWMBO out to some place nice for dinner. "HAPPY WIFE, HAPPY LIFE

One thing I've noticed about pretty much any expenditure is you'll have folks that will say it's crazy to spend the money, regardless of the benefits, and then there is another group that will try to justify extremely expensive things that may or may not even matter. With that said, take this for what it is.

I have the FX-120i/Autotrickler setup. It throws fast and is accurate to .02 grains. This is way, way faster than throwing manually and then manually trickling up. I have done several different iterations of my powder measure setup, and other than the Prometheus, this is the best thing going.

If you are loading a handful of rounds, then it really doesn't matter, but I load 3-400 rounds at a time and it has saved me a significant amount of time. This is time that I can spend with my family, instead of locked away in my reloading room.

I shoot F-Class and we are shooting 120-160+ rounds at matches, and I can tell the difference in my scores by going to a more accurate powder scale. You will notice this when looking at large quantities of shots fired, not in a single group of 3, 5 or even 10.

Fast, accurate, cheap: pick two

 

[dhamby]

I’ve made the various steps from beam to electronic scale w manual throw/trickle then to the powder dispenser(RCBS) and now using the FX120i with auto throw and auto trickle. Even when using the Chargemaster it would normally vary my +\- 0.5gr when checking the weights on my old Gempro 250. So I would throw light and trickle up manually. Truthfully this way was slower than just using a manual powder throw and then trickling up.

Powder throwing/weighting was always my least favorite thing. I finally decided to just get the auto throw/auto trickle setup with the FX120I scales. This thing is flat out amazing and very accurate. When setup right it will stop dead on the set charge weight practically every time and do so in roughly 10-12seconds per charge. I’d say it’s the best money of spent on upgraded reloading gear.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

I think it depends on your rifles capability, accuracy goals, and most importantly the distance you're shooting at. That said, I've shot with several F-Class competitors on these forums, and I can't think of a single one that's shooting on a chargemaster today. I think the vertical they introduce is too much to ignore at LR; probably less of an issue at 600.

Yesterday I randomly grabbed RL16, and set a charge weight of 42gr into my CM1500. Here's what I got after throwing 20 charges (I obviously dumped overthrows and didn't count those; only what read 42.0 after the charge had thrown):

42.06
42.08
42.12
42.02
42.02
42.04
42.02
42.14
41.98
42.00
42.06
42.00
41.96
42.08
42.20
42.00
42.00
41.94
41.98
42.02

Target Weight: 42.00
Avg: 42.06
SD: .06
ES: .26

If you extrapolate that over ~60 rounds, I feel very confident there's at least one chargemaster attributable dropped-point at 1,000.

It'd be an interesting question to ask competitors at matches (akin to the equipment lists). I'm betting you'd overwhelmingly find people using an FX120i auto-trickler/Sartorius/Prometheus.

At short range, I don't think it matters near as much. Didn't it just recently become a 'thing' to power a CM off a battery at SR BR matches? I thought those guys were dropping out of a harrels for the longest time.

 

[jpx2rk]

I have a RCBS 1500 LITE, it works well for my purposes which is pdog shoots. I check 1 out of 10 charges thrown by the LITE, and they are "close enough" for MY purpose. The LITE has a beeper for when the charge is under/over the .1g tolerance which is nice. I can fix the "boo boo's" and move on, or dump the charge back into the hopper and move on. It works well with Varget and Benchmark IMO.

 

[CaptainMal]

I have and use both the Lyman and the Hornady. Both serve me well to throw light so I can trickle up into one of my M5's or the FX120i for target rifle usage. On their own they are a joke.

How bad, or good as you may look at them... early on they seem to throw high - up to maybe .4 grains from what is set. As you use then sometimes get and stay pretty good but there is always the occasional charge reading one thing and being as much as .5 grains over. Rarely is it more than .1 gr. under. Over it can be pretty wild as powder clumps and falls in a clump. They do seem to work better with ball powders. Only thing there is you end up with that stuff all over the bench as it seems to bounce all over the place from the dispensing tubes.

I like them and use them to dispense into something that works better. Then carefully trickle up.

 

[dgeesaman]

I have a chargemaster lite. It consistently throws within 0.1 using stick powders like H322, LT-32, XBR-8208, and V133. FWIW I keep it in the corner of a climate controlled room, free of fluorescent lights, electrical machines, etc. I have a 30.1gr calibrated check weight and it’s always hit that number when I turn it on and zero it.

 

[Terry]

You be the judge. Chargemaster thrown charge.


View attachment 1108262

100 meters is the key. Move it to 500 or 1,000. Post that picture.

 

[Daddymac]

For the average guy, life is too short to cut kernels, I'm not saying it does not have merit, but for what I do, hunter/casual target shooter, it's like trying to weigh the difference in fly poop and pepper, so, weighing to the tenth of a grain is fine, and most scales do a good job at that. I am, however, long distance target curious, that's one of the reasons I'm lurking around listening and learning, I may completely 180 on my previous statement someday, but I'm a numbers guy, I'm going to need data and proof it makes a difference, if at all, I just haven't made it to that level, yet.