Induction brass annealer redux

[Brucey Boy]

Thats funny the sellers name is world wide wait.

I used these components

https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?orderId=98648352809447&productId=32819124703


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/JQX-12F-2Z-DC-12V-30A-DPDT-General-Purpose-Power-Relay-8-Pin-WS/222441454774?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-2A-Push-Pull-Open-Frame-Linear-Solenoid-Electromagnet-Plunger-10MM-Stroke-OZ/183027494140?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=690328254240&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LED-Driver-Power-Supply-AC-110-220V-to-DC5V-12V-24V-36V-48V-LED-Adapter-Lighting/272548919856?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-0-100V-LED-Dual-Digital-50A-100A-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Panel-Amp-Volt-Gauge-1Pc/152648595818?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Professional-AC-100-240V-Digital-Quartic-Timer-Delay-Relay-2-Relay/221382422610?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Your solenoid is significantly better than the one I finished up with (see image below), as I found there was no way to attach anything to the shaft of the one I bought. I eventually ran a thread on to it so I could use a couple of tiny nuts to attach it to the trapdoor mechanism.



I initially used the same volt/amp meter as yours, but it was showing only 2.8w when it should have been somewhere around 480w. Anyway, finished up with this one:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-20A-...m419a947c23:g:2iEAAOSw9N1VwjN7&frcectupt=true


Seems to work well, at least it consistently shows about the same amps and watts for each brand/calibre of case. No problems so far.

Isn't it amazing how every machine made from this Ginaeric design is basically the same yet all are different in some way, but they still work. Some are very simple and others have all the bells and whistles. Love it !!!!

 

[McHaggis]

Funny I never noticed that until now! Man they lived up to their name tho.

 

[Gina1]

""Isn't it amazing how every machine made from this Ginaeric design is basically the same yet all are different in some way, but they still work. Some are very simple and others have all the bells and whistles. Love it !!!! ""

BIG SMILE

Gina

PS Really like the new meter.

 

[Vitold-23]

I dont understand why this thread is not a sticky. There are so many recent threads regarding annealing and these machines are not up the front as an option.
Anyway I finally nearly finished my Annealers there seems to always be some room for improvement once you have tried a few different options. I have made two machines one using a ferrite which really concentrates the flux and the other the copper work coil type. I started with the original design with the same 1 1/8 using 1/8 copper 8 turns and then tried a 7 turn 4mm copper coil which gave a much better water flow and heated about the same and same Frequency. The Frequency was about 100 Khz and gave the 8.6 A no brass in coil result and with a 308 case 10.9 A and it took about 8.4 seconds this heated too much of the case so I added 4 extra capacitors this reduced the frequency to about 80 Khz it brought up the idle current to 10.8A and with a 308 case to 14-15A and the time down to 4.8 seconds with a much better concentration of heat.
I initially built this unit with an SSR as well but for some reason even before I added the extra capacitors after a few anneals the SSR burnt out and stuck on. I did have a diode to ground but I dont think I had the negative rail of the 48V to ground which I really should have. I may give this another try when I get some new parts in.

With the Ferrite unit I actually turned down the voltage as far as I could on the 48V supply to 41V to extend the annealing times. The no case in the field current is 3.3 A and with a 308 case in the field is about 8A and anneals in 3.2 seconds it operates at about the 100kHz as well. It will do a 223 in about 1.2 seconds.

The ferite machine would actually end up cheaper to make is lighter and smaller but the duty cycle may not be the same not sure how long you could run it. It allows for the use of a smaller rated power supply no water cooling ect.

Lots of stuff to add. I have learnt heaps making these machines now just hope it helps the scores.

Can you please tell diameter of the tube on ferrite core.

 

[David101]

Not sure what you mean by the diameter of the tube. The Ferrite I purchased from fluxeon and you get 2 one has a 16 mm gap the other about 12. Really the larger is the more practical you can still do 223 in an instant. To make them work the wire that is coiled around the Ferrite is very thin multistrand cable. There is more flux gererated by using this thin multi strand wire or in some places called Litz wire. I tried with a copper pipe to confirm this. The copper pipe didnt work.

 

[Vitold-23]

Not sure what you mean by the diameter of the tube. The Ferrite I purchased from fluxeon and you get 2 one has a 16 mm gap the other about 12. Really the larger is the more practical you can still do 223 in an instant. To make them work the wire that is coiled around the Ferrite is very thin multistrand cable. There is more flux gererated by using this thin multi strand wire or in some places called Litz wire. I tried with a copper pipe to confirm this. The copper pipe didnt work.

Is the wire that is wound around the ferrite getting very hot? because as I heat up to 80-90 gradeafter annealing 5-8 Brass

 

[Vitold-23]

the wire that is wound around ferrite is thick

 

[David101]

The wire gets warm over time but you can easily do 50-100 the most I normally do. The wire is about 6mm in diameter it comes with the Ferrite if you get the same ones I did.

 

[270guy]

I am in Aust too. You can bet that everything will work when it arrives. As David said, don't test it with 12v. Nothing to gain there but heartache. It need full voltage to function correctly. All my parts were generally from China via EBay, but Jaycar are good for a lot of your sundry requirements. One thing for sure, use good grade wire particularly for the 48v circuit. You can get away with lesser grade for all the 12v stuff. If you go back in this thread a few pages (Page 75 about half way down) you will see a picture I posted of the very reliable relay from Jaycar that I used along with a link to the item on their website. There are a couple of other relays on the same page (75) that you can look at too, so you are spoiled for choice. Over 4,000 cases through mine so far with no problem. I did have a SSR but like quite a few others have posted, it lasted but a few minutes under load, and then lots of smoke and that burning smell. Any help you need is right here on the forum. Good luck.

 

[270guy]

Thanks Brucey Boy.

 

[270guy]

Im in Aus and I purchased all my parts either off ebay or aliexpress all from China power supplies included much faster and cheaper from Aliexpress. I used a 10mm solenoid and found the paddle arrangement much better than the straight pull. The parts were mostly as have been shown or described in the previous pages. Dont try to power the board from a 12V battery more chance of blowing it up than testing it to test it use the coil that come with the unit much less current draw.

Thanks David.

 

[270guy]

I’m in Southland and got this one from eBay. Slow shipping but it’s working fine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/220VAC-240...073945?hash=item3f37152b99:g:H7AAAOxy~g5RpANM

Thanks. With a name like McHaggis, would never have guessed Southland. Looks like the same one on Aliexpress, cheers.

 

[Vitold-23]

The wire gets warm over time but you can easily do 50-100 the most I normally do. The wire is about 6mm in diameter it comes with the Ferrite if you get the same ones I did.

Thanks David.

 

[270guy]

Ok, now I'm excited! Parts are starting to arrive, which is quicker than expected. May mean, the that one part will be slow and I'm stranded waiting for it to arrive though. Induction board, cooling tank/ pump, radiator and fan, volt / amp meter, oooh I can almost hear the breaker board cut outs working already! This also means thatthe "dumb" questions will soon be coming.
Had to share, my wife and kids just don't understand (insert small violin here).
cheers

 

[Fliers]

Are there details on the additional capacitors to make it more efficient?
What size and where are they wired?

 

[Gina1]

Ok, now I'm excited! Parts are starting to arrive, which is quicker than expected. May mean, the that one part will be slow and I'm stranded waiting for it to arrive though. Induction board, cooling tank/ pump, radiator and fan, volt / amp meter, oooh I can almost hear the breaker board cut outs working already! This also means thatthe "dumb" questions will soon be coming.
Had to share, my wife and kids just don't understand (insert small violin here).
cheers

If you run into any problems, questions, etc, feel free to PM me.

Gina

 

[270guy]

If you run into any problems, questions, etc, feel free to PM me.

Gina

Thank you sir.

 

[Gina1]

Thank you sir.

Gina <------ Gal

 

[PopsRobinson]

Hi Gina,

need a little help and advice if you can!

I have managed to complete the project, but I have a few anomolies that are getting the better of my limited electrical knowledge. On first start up, i set the voltage, which was around 43 volts and gave me 8.1amps in an unloaded coil, once i dropped a case, the amps went up to around 11.5amps and an anneal time of 10.45s, this was for a.308 case. I did play with the height settings and ensured that the case was as central as possible. With Tempilaq 750, it annealed to around 4mm below the shoulder, so it appeared that all was well. 60 cases later, (after an overnight rest) i fired the unit up again for a second test, but this time it showed the unloaded coil as drawing around 2.5amps, and a loaded coil as just managing to hit 6.8amps with a stupid annealing time. In order to get the power up, I have had to increase the voltage to 53.5volts, this now anneales in 7.5 seconds and amps hitting 11.5 amps. I am thinking that the ZVS unit is defective, but I have no idea in reality, any ideas or thoughts?

 

[David101]

Your first numbers seem about right. The second day with an unloaded current of 2.5 sounds really wrong given the collective experience. However if your ZVS unit was defective I wouldnt think any adjustment to the power supply could fix it. They tend to work or not. perhaps a check of all your joints and all the solder joints on the board. I found they can easily have bad solder joints and then due to transit the component can break free altogether.