Trouble headspacing off of shoulder verses belt on my Magnum cases

[Steve Ladino]

What are you all doing to H Spc. off the shoulder and get the swelling just in front of the belt reduced? When I achieve sufficient re sizing from the belt forward on a .300 win mag case then I end up with too much shoulder bump. The brass is once fired Federal, likely Military, 08 and 09. I'm wondering if Redding dies might be able to do both so that I can get .001 /.0015 clearance at the shoulder face, what I have now is .005 / .006 " clearance along with easy bolt drop. Besides buying a custom made die or maybe new brass or an Innovative Technology collet die what other cheaper alternatives have you come up with ? Thanks A good solution is posted below from dellet.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

To be able to do this (headspace off the shoulder) you just about have to start from scratch- reamer specd for that and die to match. My recommendation is always to ditch the belted magnums and go to a straight walled case if you want to be precise. Seems the belted mags they send out these days are just not meant to be reloaded like that.

 

[2506]

Not to answer your major question but maybe to save you a bunch of useless work. Most everyone that I have seen or heard of that is trying to use this Military 300 Win mag brass has found that the primer pockets are so loose that most often after their first firing they are toast. This ammo is loaded really high pressure from the get go and stretches the soft Federal brass primer pockets. I would just FL size a few and shoot them with your load just to see what the primer pockets look like.

With my belted mag cases that I headspace off the shoulder I have only worked with new cases that have been fired in the particular rifle and thus have not had to size the base of the case because they fit even though tight they fit. I just use a FL size die to "part size" the case. It sizes the neck and just bumps the shoulder but really does not do anything more.

 

[DaveTooley]

I tell all my customers to start with new brass. It makes just about every problem manageable. Trying to use once fired brass, while inexpensive, is not cost effective in the long run. There is almost always problems.

 

[dellet]

If all you are trying to do is size the base of cases shot in another rifle, as opposed to after each firing, using a 300 Weatherby die Should work. It would act as small base, body only die.

There should also be enough excess length internally that you could face a few thousandths off the bottom of the die the to reduce the base a bit more.

At max trim length, the neck on the Winchester, will just touch bottom of the neck on the Weatherby.

 

[Murray Brook]

Delete

 

[Murray Brook]

If all you are trying to do is size the base of cases shot in another rifle, as opposed to after each firing, using a 300 Weatherby die Should work. It would act as small base, body only die.

There should also be enough excess length internally that you could face a few thousandths off the bottom of the die the to reduce the base a bit more.

At max trim length, the neck on the Winchester, will just touch bottom of the neck on the Weatherby.

I think this is a great idea. Can't see why it wouldn't work.

 

[dellet]

I think this is a great idea. Can't see why it wouldn't work.

It works a few times, depending on how much you are working the brass with each firing. The same idea is done with used or obsolete rimmed cases.

The problem with a high pressure load and repeated sizing this way would be creating an external doughnut above the belt. At some point you would basically headspace off that doughnut.

For a one time sizing of some thing shot in a different chamber, it works well.

 

[BoydAllen]

Body dies are like fL dies except they do not size the neck. They have the shoulder part, so that would not solve your problem. A friend ran into this and what I told him to do was to buy a cheap used FL die off of Ebay, or at a gun show, and cut it off below the shoulder to make a base die that could be set to size all the way to the belt without touching the shoulder. This allowed him to get the shoulder bump he wanted and then use the cut off die to size the base of the case.

 

[Steve Ladino]

If all you are trying to do is size the base of cases shot in another rifle, as opposed to after each firing, using a 300 Weatherby die Should work. It would act as small base, body only die.

There should also be enough excess length internally that you could face a few thousandths off the bottom of the die the to reduce the base a bit more.

At max trim length, the neck on the Winchester, will just touch bottom of the neck on the Weatherby.

Yes I thought of that and I have a 300 WHBY die set but the angulation of the case walls are different at 4/5 ths. of the win mag case insertion so rather than change the win mag I stopped. But thanks, I figured that would be the ticket but no.

 

[Steve Ladino]

Body dies are like fL dies except they do not size the neck. They have the shoulder part, so that would not solve your problem. A friend ran into this and what I told him to do was to buy a cheap used FL die off of Ebay, or at a gun show, and cut it off below the shoulder to make a base die that could be set to size all the way to the belt without touching the shoulder. This allowed him to get the shoulder bump he wanted and then use the cut off die to size the base of the case.

That is on my agenda and likely will work just fine.....thanks

 

[Steve Ladino]

To be able to do this (headspace off the shoulder) you just about have to start from scratch- reamer specd for that and die to match. My recommendation is always to ditch the belted magnums and go to a straight walled case if you want to be precise. Seems the belted mags they send out these days are just not meant to be reloaded like that.

Thanks but dealing with what I now have.

 

[Steve Ladino]

Not to answer your major question but maybe to save you a bunch of useless work. Most everyone that I have seen or heard of that is trying to use this Military 300 Win mag brass has found that the primer pockets are so loose that most often after their first firing they are toast. This ammo is loaded really high pressure from the get go and stretches the soft Federal brass primer pockets. I would just FL size a few and shoot them with your load just to see what the primer pockets look like.

With my belted mag cases that I headspace off the shoulder I have only worked with new cases that have been fired in the particular rifle and thus have not had to size the base of the case because they fit even though tight they fit. I just use a FL size die to "part size" the case. It sizes the neck and just bumps the shoulder but really does not do anything more.

Yes the Federal brass I have has not loose and not to tight pockets for only once fired. What is happening is the necks are splitting after a couple firings, with not a lot of excessive dimensional changes done at sizing. Guess the good gun show deal on the brass was not so good after all...….Thanks

 

[Steve Ladino]

I tell all my customers to start with new brass. It makes just about every problem manageable. Trying to use once fired brass, while inexpensive, is not cost effective in the long run. There is almost always problems.

You're right ! Live and learn.....thanks

 

[Uncle Ed]

The die below will size the case just above the belt and solve your problem. The majority of belted magnum dies do not and can not size just above the belt. The problem exists because of the variations in chamber diameter and case thickness above the belt. Simply meaning a fat chamber with a skinny case allows the case to expand more above the belt.

And in the photo below the collet slides down to the top of the belt and then squeezes the area that does not get sized with most normal belted sizing dies. Meaning the collet die below acts like a small base die and will reduce the case diameter above the belt.

Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die
http://www.larrywillis.com/

Belted magnum cartridges have been around for over 50 years, and most shooters that reload them are familiar with the case bulge problem that occurs "just above" the belt. This usually happens after just 2 or 3 firings - wasting perfectly good cases. Many shooters have discovered this problem when they find their handloads begin to stick in their chamber, or when they no longer chamber at all.

Unlike non-belted cases, the belt prevents conventional full length dies from traveling far enough down the case. This limits the amount of resizing, and brass is plowed rearward. The brass builds up just above the belt at each reloading, and cases expand. Neck sizing dies don't bump the shoulder back or resize the tapered case wall. The best solution is to full length resize accurately, and use this collet die to reduce case width.

Our patented Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die solves this problem and has other unique features. The top of this die is a case width gauge that shows when a little "extra" case resizing is required. This resizing die is used to eliminate the case bulge above the belt, after using your full length (or) neck sizing die. Our collet die ensures that your belted magnum ammo will always chamber properly and your cases are now able to last for up to 20 firings, even when using the hottest handloads. Our resizing die uses a collet that fits over the cartridge case, until it bottoms against the belt. The case is then pressed into the sizing die. The collet allows your case to go farther into the die where it only reduces the area "just above" the belt.

This ONE die and collet is universal and works on ALL of the popular belted magnum calibers including: .257 Weatherby Magnum, 6.5 Remington Magnum, .264 Winchester Magnum, .270 Weatherby Magnum, 7 x 61 Sharpe & Hart, 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm Weatherby Magnum, 7mm STW, .300 H&H Magnum, .300 Winchester Magnum, .300 Weatherby Magnum, .308 Norma Magnum, 8mm Remington Magnum, .338 Winchester Magnum, .340 Weatherby Magnum, .350 Remington Magnum, .358 Norma Magnum, .375 H&H Magnum, .416 Remington Magnum, .458 Winchester Magnum, .458 Lott Magnum and several belted wildcat cartridges. There are no extra collets to buy when resizing different calibers. The U.S. Secret Service was one of our first customers to purchase this product.

This popular collet die is now used by well over 6,000 shooters. Sometimes, the high cost of manufacturing this item requires us to build a waiting list before the next production run is back on the shelf.

 

[1lnbrdg]

Do you have to put the collet on each case or is it captured in the die while doing re-sizing operations?

 

[Steve Ladino]

Do you have to put the collet on each case or is it captured in the die while doing re-sizing operations?

Each time....see you tube video

 

[Steve Ladino]

On each case

 

[Steve Ladino]

Well everyone who offered good advise for me let me say that a suggestion from "dellet" to use a 300 Weatherby FL die (which I was dubious about because of felt interference ) worked just as I wanted it to, to reduce the swelling above the belt and not touch the shoulder...even sized the neck half way down. Thanks all and especially dellet.

 

[Steve Ladino]

The die below will size the case just above the belt and solve your problem. The majority of belted magnum dies do not and can not size just above the belt. The problem exists because of the variations in chamber diameter and case thickness above the belt. Simply meaning a fat chamber with a skinny case allows the case to expand more above the belt.

And in the photo below the collet slides down to the top of the belt and then squeezes the area that does not get sized with most normal belted sizing dies. Meaning the collet die below acts like a small base die and will reduce the case diameter above the belt.

Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die
http://www.larrywillis.com/

Belted magnum cartridges have been around for over 50 years, and most shooters that reload them are familiar with the case bulge problem that occurs "just above" the belt. This usually happens after just 2 or 3 firings - wasting perfectly good cases. Many shooters have discovered this problem when they find their handloads begin to stick in their chamber, or when they no longer chamber at all.

Unlike non-belted cases, the belt prevents conventional full length dies from traveling far enough down the case. This limits the amount of resizing, and brass is plowed rearward. The brass builds up just above the belt at each reloading, and cases expand. Neck sizing dies don't bump the shoulder back or resize the tapered case wall. The best solution is to full length resize accurately, and use this collet die to reduce case width.

Our patented Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die solves this problem and has other unique features. The top of this die is a case width gauge that shows when a little "extra" case resizing is required. This resizing die is used to eliminate the case bulge above the belt, after using your full length (or) neck sizing die. Our collet die ensures that your belted magnum ammo will always chamber properly and your cases are now able to last for up to 20 firings, even when using the hottest handloads. Our resizing die uses a collet that fits over the cartridge case, until it bottoms against the belt. The case is then pressed into the sizing die. The collet allows your case to go farther into the die where it only reduces the area "just above" the belt.

This ONE die and collet is universal and works on ALL of the popular belted magnum calibers including: .257 Weatherby Magnum, 6.5 Remington Magnum, .264 Winchester Magnum, .270 Weatherby Magnum, 7 x 61 Sharpe & Hart, 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm Weatherby Magnum, 7mm STW, .300 H&H Magnum, .300 Winchester Magnum, .300 Weatherby Magnum, .308 Norma Magnum, 8mm Remington Magnum, .338 Winchester Magnum, .340 Weatherby Magnum, .350 Remington Magnum, .358 Norma Magnum, .375 H&H Magnum, .416 Remington Magnum, .458 Winchester Magnum, .458 Lott Magnum and several belted wildcat cartridges. There are no extra collets to buy when resizing different calibers. The U.S. Secret Service was one of our first customers to purchase this product.

This popular collet die is now used by well over 6,000 shooters. Sometimes, the high cost of manufacturing this item requires us to build a waiting list before the next production run is back on the shelf.

Thanks Ed......it probably is the best tool out there , $100.00