A 600yd 30-30

[Damfino]

Butch is talking about a 30-30, but not a lever gun. You are not confused, the final product will be a bolt gun 30-30 to be used in mid range matches, mostly 600 yards, and maybe occasional 1000 yards.

Love to read about this kind of skill and innovation that turns the purportedly ill-suited underdog into a surprising sentimental favorite that can win.

 

[George Foster]

I have always read that the 30-30 was and is an inherently cartridge. I know the Rem 788, Win Mod 54 and Savage all were made in 30-30. A neighbor had one in a Savage 340 and when I loaded ammo for him with the 150gr Sierra it was no problem to get groups of under 1".

 

[ebb]

I thought that a Palma rifle had to be a 308win to be within the rules. Am I wrong???

 

[swehrman]

I thought that a Palma rifle had to be a 308win to be within the rules. Am I wrong???

308 or 223.

-- Scott

 

[Bamban]

I thought that a Palma rifle had to be a 308win to be within the rules. Am I wrong???

This project is a bolt gun match rifle to shoot mid range and occasional long range. Nothing to do with Palma matches.

 

[Tommie]

Pix please!

 

[Bamban]

Pix please!

In due time. Michael just got done with velocity testing.

 

[ebb]

The very first post by Butch said that he believed it would be a Palma rifle. That was my only reason for bringing it up. I've been following Mt Turner's benchrest exploits with great interest since I first saw them on Benchrest Central. Cool project, keep us posted.

 

[Laurie]

Pretty impressive velocities from the 30-30! I'm not entirely surprised with the N530 results, but would caution that (alongside N540) this is a very hot burning powder. Their nitroglycerin content and specific energy values are higher than the other N500 series grades and IIRC the latter metric is higher than for any other canister powder available to handloaders. With the pressures involved barrel wear might be surprisingly high. (Same as some F/TR 308 loads these days where 'traditional' 308 barrel life expectations have been reduced hugely.)

Having read a lot of the older stuff on benchrest by people like Warren Page, the 30-30's precision potential doesn't surprise me at all and fair few smaller calibre 30-30 based wildcats saw use in BR long before the PPCs and BRs appeared.

I was surprised by the case life experiment results though - you just assume this design has a thin and weak case. Apparently not in a strong tightly breached action and chamber! Good old Victorian era over-engineering maybe? (Why in the UK our Victorian railway tunnels, bridges, and viaducts - many from the 1860s and 70s - keep going forever and modern equivalents such as the 1960s Forth Road Bridge in Scotland need replacing after 40 or 50 years.)

It's a wonderful project - thank you for writing it up and please keep reporting on it.

 

[grovey]

Interesting. Don't they have a much larger base than a .308 case?

 

[butchlambert]

Interesting. Don't they have a much larger base than a .308 case?

A slightly larger base, but a lot of taper to the case.

 

[butchlambert]

The very first post by Butch said that he believed it would be a Palma rifle. That was my only reason for bringing it up. I've been following Mt Turner's benchrest exploits with great interest since I first saw them on Benchrest Central. Cool project, keep us posted.

Didn't know about the classes that Bamban will be shooting and my post shows that.

 

[CharlieNC]

Read this....

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?95849-Why-I-Shoot-the-30-30-in-Benchrest

 

[Kurz]

Here is a quick drawing of the dimensions for the .30-30 Win. Ignore the 'Improved" on the left, go with the one on the right.

 

[Bamban]

Pretty impressive velocities from the 30-30! I'm not entirely surprised with the N530 results, but would caution that (alongside N540) this is a very hot burning powder. Their nitroglycerin content and specific energy values are higher than the other N500 series grades and IIRC the latter metric is higher than for any other canister powder available to handloaders. With the pressures involved barrel wear might be surprisingly high. (Same as some F/TR 308 loads these days where 'traditional' 308 barrel life expectations have been reduced hugely.)

Having read a lot of the older stuff on benchrest by people like Warren Page, the 30-30's precision potential doesn't surprise me at all and fair few smaller calibre 30-30 based wildcats saw use in BR long before the PPCs and BRs appeared.

I was surprised by the case life experiment results though - you just assume this design has a thin and weak case. Apparently not in a strong tightly breached action and chamber! Good old Victorian era over-engineering maybe? (Why in the UK our Victorian railway tunnels, bridges, and viaducts - many from the 1860s and 70s - keep going forever and modern equivalents such as the 1960s Forth Road Bridge in Scotland need replacing after 40 or 50 years.)

It's a wonderful project - thank you for writing it up and please keep reporting on it.

Laurie,

Thank you for the heads up. Back in the mid 90s I shot a few kilos of N540. Shooting my AR space gun and service rifles I sure got some excellent precision at ridiculously higher velocity than any powder in that era. Looking forward to see how the N530 would do in this project.

BTW, while on business trip in Scotland in 98, I borrowed a Musgrave action rifle from Charles Young and shot in the beautiful Blair Atholl range. The match was the Northern Scotland Championship.

Nez Rongero

 

[Zero333]

Those velocities are INSANE !!

Quickload 30-30 AI - 168 Berg. Hybs. - 2.850"coal - 28" bbl - 2,750 fps @ 63,000 - 65,000 psi.



That right there is the difference between a lever action and a robust bolt gun.

The 30-30 / 30-30ai is SAAMI rated to 46,000 psi due to the lever guns.

 

[jamesdmock]

Michael is a superb machinist and he has proven that he can make the 30/30 work as a competition cartridge. BUT, is it to be recommended for a competition cartridge? Probably not since there are several better choices. Just because a flat head V-8 engine can be made into powerful power plant does not mean that today's racers should use it in NASCAR races. Or should the open wheel racers return to the 4 cylinder Offenhausers that won so many races yesteryear.

 

[Tommie]

Here it comes...blasphemy.

I contend that the advantage (yes I said “advantage”) of the 30-30 is the rimmed case. Unlike rimless cases with their ever-changing shoulders, rimmed cases headspace solidly and therefore bullet jump can be 100% controlled. Cut the chamber for tight headspace, blueprint case rims to suit and you’re done.

Looking forward to gasps of horror.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Very interesting project, please keep us posted! It's always nice to see someone trying something a little different.

FWIW - If you want a little more velocity than IMR4166 in a single base powder, you might give H4895 a try. In my hands with .223 Rem and .308 Win, IMR4166 gives comparable velocity to Varget. IMR4895 might give even a tad more velocity than H4895, although it is not quite as resistant to temperature fluctuation. The 168 Hybrid is a very good bullet choice. Without being too heavy for the 30-30 case capacity to push, it has a comparable BC to many other bullets in the 175-185 gr weight range. I have an F-TR load with 168 Hybrids over H4895 that works very well at ~2900 fps from a 30" barrel.

 

[jonbearman]

This project is awesome. I always wanted to try this myself.I read an article many years ago and it talked about how the 30-30 could outshoot the .308 match rifle and the like. I would love to see a picture when it is all done and ready to kick ass and take names.