Annealing, Best Method? Best Equipment?

[Lucky7]

I know there are so many opinions on which Annealing process to use and what is the best equipment to use but I always have concerns if I have done it correctly?

I have been researching the Salt Bath Annealing vs Torch Annealing and am very confused for sure now!

If cost is not a factor (hypothetically speaking) what is the absolute best method of Annealing brass and what equipment is the best to use?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you

 

[7stubby]

AMP Annealer

 

[DngBat7]

What’s your budget.

 

[Lucky7]

What’s your budget.

I would like to stay under a $1,000 if possible, but would consider more if it was justified.

 

[JimSC]

What do you expect to accomplish ?

I used to anneal after every firing, I got sub MOA groups at mid and long range, had good brass life. Then I read up on elasticity and how it is only affected at the atomic level while annealing only affects the brass at the molecular level late last summer. So I stopped annealing and eight reloads later I still get sub MOA groups at mid to long range, SD's in the low single digits and good brass life. Actually my groups are better than they were when I was annealing but I attribute that to practice and more attention during case prep on brass length and primer seating not any difference in the brass. If you decide on a Annealeeze, I have a well used one modded with a digital speed controller I will sell cheap. If you decide to do some research on elasticity and ductility before spending $500 to $1500 here are some links

https://www.thestructuralmadness.com/2014/02/ductility-and-elasticity.html

https://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/UNS-C26800-CW506L-Yellow-Brass

https://www.uni-ulm.de/fileadmin/website_uni_ulm/uzwr/mmsm/mmsm1-ws1314/mmsm1-handout-plasticity.pdf

http://www.virginia.edu/bohr/mse209/chapter6.htm

 

[Murray Brook]

I have been using Ballistic Recreations salt bath set-up. I find it works real good, but if cost is of no concern then I agree with 7stubby AMP is probably the way to go.

 

[Lucky7]

What do you expect to accomplish ?

I used to anneal after every firing, I got sub MOA groups at mid and long range, had good brass life. Then I read up on elasticity and how it is only affected at the atomic level while annealing only affects the brass at the molecular level late last summer. So I stopped annealing and eight reloads later I still get sub MOA groups at mid to long range, SD's in the low single digits and good brass life. Actually my groups are better than they were when I was annealing but I attribute that to practice and more attention during case prep on brass length and primer seating not any difference in the brass. If you decide on a Annealeeze, I have a well used one modded with a digital speed controller I will sell cheap. If you decide to do some research on elasticity and ductility before spending $500 to $1500 here are some links

https://www.thestructuralmadness.com/2014/02/ductility-and-elasticity.html

https://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/UNS-C26800-CW506L-Yellow-Brass

https://www.uni-ulm.de/fileadmin/website_uni_ulm/uzwr/mmsm/mmsm1-ws1314/mmsm1-handout-plasticity.pdf

http://www.virginia.edu/bohr/mse209/chapter6.htm

I will send you a PM regarding your machine? Thank you for the links

 

[Lucky7]

What do you expect to accomplish ?

I used to anneal after every firing, I got sub MOA groups at mid and long range, had good brass life. Then I read up on elasticity and how it is only affected at the atomic level while annealing only affects the brass at the molecular level late last summer. So I stopped annealing and eight reloads later I still get sub MOA groups at mid to long range, SD's in the low single digits and good brass life. Actually my groups are better than they were when I was annealing but I attribute that to practice and more attention during case prep on brass length and primer seating not any difference in the brass. If you decide on a Annealeeze, I have a well used one modded with a digital speed controller I will sell cheap. If you decide to do some research on elasticity and ductility before spending $500 to $1500 here are some links

https://www.thestructuralmadness.com/2014/02/ductility-and-elasticity.html

https://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/UNS-C26800-CW506L-Yellow-Brass

https://www.uni-ulm.de/fileadmin/website_uni_ulm/uzwr/mmsm/mmsm1-ws1314/mmsm1-handout-plasticity.pdf

http://www.virginia.edu/bohr/mse209/chapter6.htm

As far as what I would like to accomplish, I have just noticed that shooting virgin Lapua brass my groups are typically better than when I shoot my prepped brass. It may be several steps in my process, not just Annealing but the Annealing is where I am not confident in my process.

 

[Sniper338]

AMP.

 

[JimSC]

https://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/UNS-C26800-CW506L-Yellow-Brass

this link was the clincher for me, click on Extra Hard brass (H06) and Annealed brass OSO50 and look at the Elastic (Young's, Tensile) Modulus number. All brass has a elastic modulus of 110 GPA, the elasticity is what affects neck tensions

 

[JimSC]

As far as what I would like to accomplish, I have just noticed that shooting virgin Lapua brass my groups are typically better than when I shoot my prepped brass. It may be several steps in my process, not just Annealing but the Annealing is where I am not confident in my process.

sounds like you are where I was a couple of years ago. I started annealing, prepping primer pockets, getting my powder charges more precise, lubing necks and a half dozen other things all at once. My groups and SD's did improve and it too a lot for me to stop annealing to see if anything changed. Seven or eight months later the annealer has a nice layer of dust and my groups and velocity SD's are better than ever

Edit - here is a rough load test I did last week at 300. The brass is Lapua .260 Rem brass reloaded x6 and never annealed. The group at 38.5gns was .5MOA. Five shot SD's were as low as 2 on some charges. What if anything would annealing accomplish ?

 

[riflewoman]

https://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/UNS-C26800-CW506L-Yellow-Brass

this link was the clincher for me, click on Extra Hard brass (H06) and Annealed brass OSO50 and look at the Elastic (Young's, Tensile) Modulus number. All brass has a elastic modulus of 110 GPA, the elasticity is what affects neck tensions

Yes. Provided your neck tension hasn’t required the brass to yield. This is where careful case prep shines.

 

[JimSC]

Yes. Provided your neck tension hasn’t required the brass to yield. This is where careful case prep shines.

the necks will always yield, that is why we resize. If they never passed the elasticty phase and got into the ductility phase we could throw away our sizing dies. But I completely agree on the case prep. I am one anal son of a gun on case prep these days and it is paying off big time.

 

[Lucky7]

Thank you all for the great information. Much appreciated

 

[Fliers]

What is happening to the people that get split necks without annealing? I'm assuming that's the only thing they changed...

 

[Marksman63]

AMP

 

[TC260]

Then I read up on elasticity and how it is only affected at the atomic level while annealing only affects the brass at the molecular level late last summer

I'm just curious, where did you read about this theory?

 

[R.Olds]

I used an Anneal eze flame annealer for a year with pretty good success, but I decided to step up to the Amp Annealer from annealing made perfect and havent had one ounce of regret.....IMO that machine is worth its weight in gold! my groups, SD's and ES's have shrunk considerably.

I will be putting my Anneal Eze unit up for sale soon.

 

[JimSC]

I'm just curious, where did you read about this theory?

not a theory, scientific facts. I provided links in a earlier post. It's also not a theory that I can get small groups and low velocity spreads without annealing, I can post pages of real targets and real chrono spreadsheet numbers to back that up. The only theory I see floating around here is that annealing would somehow help my ammo perform better. I have never seen a real world study by any reloading blog or manufacturer that even attempts to demonstrate that it does.

Two questions:

1. What would a perfect anneal using a annealing machine that costs more than my rifles accomplish that I am not already achieving ?

2. why has there been no large scale testing of annealed vs non annealed cases for accuracy and durability? The only study I have seen was limited in nature and showed no improvements whatsoever in velocity SD/SD numbers or durability.

 

[TC260]

Easy there my friend, I only quoted/asked where you read about the part pertaining to elasticity and annealing.