Digital scale question

[JimSC]

My old Chargemaster is going on 8 years old now and has thrown at least 10,000 rounds.The first one I received was defective from the box and was exchanged. I found I can throw and trickle faster than it can so I don't use it much these days but I know at least three F class shooters that I shoot with regularly and who have their high master cards that use theirs for both mid and long range loads. A good shot is a good shot, only duffers blame the equipment and more expensive equipment will only help to a certain point. After that point you need to have or develop the talent to go farther up the food chain. My neighbor has maybe $10K of drivers, putters, swing trainers, and instructional golf videos in his garage, he has never broke 100 in the 20 years I have known him.

 

[Fotheringill]

Jim-

If the above comment was directed at me, you are incorrect.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I don't have the answer to that but I do know that if the 1500 goes hinky during the 8th month and there was a six month warranty by RCBS the are going to politely tell you to stick it where the sun don't shine.

Luckily, I bought it from Brownell's and had Brownell's EDGE. I shipped it back and received a full refund (not vendor credit).

I am done with RCBS and have since ordered only from Brownells.

I have the Gem Pro 300 on backorder through Brownell’s. Their forever warranty is why I’m not afraid to give this digital scale a try, and it is in my budget at the $145 price..

 

[dgeesaman]

Good morning guys, I'm just an occasional shooter- reloader and would like to start using a digital scale, would like to know what your thoughts on which would be the best bang for the buck, thanks

I’m quite happy with my chargemaster lite.

They go on sale from time to time.

David

 

[JimSC]

Jim-

If the above comment was directed at me, you are incorrect.

No it was not directed at you or anyone in particular. I do shake my head at people who think they can buy a medal without devoting hundreds of hours practice in any sport. If you are shooting low 190's with a good Leupold or Sightron upgrading your scope to a March and you will probably still shoot low 190's.

Sure there are born shooters and golfers but for most of us getting above mediocre at a sport requires a lot of time invested. Some of us more than others, over the last year I put over 3000 rounds downrange, did dry firing exercises a couple of time a week, upgraded my equipment from beginner to mid priced and am just now reaching the mediocre level. My goal for this year is to reach the "he's not bad" level

 

[Mark M.]

I’m quite happy with my chargemaster lite.

They go on sale from time to time.

David

Just bought a rcbs chargemaster lite from brownells 213. Shipped, I believe this will meet my needs well, thx

 

[rebs]

I am using a Frankford Arsenal digital for the last 3 years. Works great and I paid $29.99 for it. I double check with a Lyman balance beam.

 

[gasph]

I also have a charge master lite and a FX120i and am happy with both of them. One is about 5 times the price with all the bells and whistles. I had a gempro 250 that worked good at first but got extremely frustrating It was slung into the trashcan several times and finally for good, I am very happy not to have to deal with it anymore. You made a good choice.

 

[boltman13]

Post#4 by Twoboxer says it all. First how accurate do you want/need to be for your type of shooting. Second how much time are you willing to spend for that level of accuracy. Third how much can you afford to get that accuracy. I finally went to the FX120i and Auto Throw and Auto Trickler, and it is a wonderful system for very precise weighting to +/- 0.02 grains or about 1 kernel of Varget or H4350. That said it was expensive and I only use it for F-Class and Mid Range BR loads. I have had a Lyman DPS Gen II for years and still use it. For hunting loads and short range BR it works fine. I also have Lyman Gen 6 and it is faster but chronically overshoots by 0.1 to 0.2 grains. I set it below my target weight by 0.1 grains and deal with it. I have kept my RCBS 505 balance beam scale to make sure the digitals are not wildly out of wack. I went down the GemPro 250 rat hole and found it just took toooo long to load any volume of cases, even throwing a short weight and trickling up with a Little Gem powered trickler, with all of the drift and need to re-tare. A few things help if you can use only LED light, remove all electromagnetic interference, and use the provided pad under the scale it is better. I would also advise strong drink, however. LOL. If all you want is a digital scale to weigh powder or any other component I have had good results with a Lyman 2000 at about $120. Only you can decide what to go with, based on needs, time, and money, but needs and money change. That's why most who post here have more than one scale. By the way a good top end powder dispenser a Harrels or Redding can be very accurate with good technique and practice and is way faster and not too expensive. Good Luck.

 

[Steve Ladino]

Good morning guys, I'm just an occasional shooter- reloader and would like to start using a digital scale, would like to know what your thoughts on which would be the best bang for the buck, thanks

RCBS Chargemaster scale has worked well for me. On average I have used it every other day for five years now. It has its needs though, not repairs per say but things like leveling, disassembling and removing powder from the top of the strain gauge, removing static with a bounce dryer sheet, normal room temperature, and I've installed a limiter in the end of the dispensing tube which provides almost flawless consistency of weight thrown. I calibrate often and almost always leave it plugged in and turned on.

 

[Ccrider]

@boltman13, how many years of practice are we talking about and how accurate do you consider accurate. I use my Harrell’s with my fx120 and trickler. Very efficient and accurate. But, I am varying on avg +/- .2 grains at times with my throws. I don’t consider this to be accurate.

 

[Howland]

I've used an RCBS 5-0-5 for years but got a little Frankfort Arsenal digital scale in a trade package. I like both. I recently bought a Hornady Lock-n-Load autocharger. It was a learning curve adapting to it's quirks. It would overthrow frequently. I learned it was best to use the medium throw speed and switch to a slow trickle at least one grain below target. I also learned it turn off the heat and AC and put the cell phone in the next room. It is much more reliable now. I still throw 0.1 gr. low and trickle up on the 5-0-5 for precision. For rifles I'm not trying to squeeze .1 MOA tighter, I just set the autothrower to target charge and run them.

This comes from someone who used to calibrate analytical balances with calibration weights of a mass known to a level of uncertainty so fine it was beyond the means of my equipment to distinguish. Fortunately I determined the exact weight of a set of check weights I own before I left.

"Accurate to 0.1 gr." refers to the resolution of the readout, not the accuracy against a certified weight. Resolution is just one component of accuracy. If resolution is 0.1 gr., accuracy cannot be 0.1 gr. unless everything else is perfect. Even the most advanced metrological laboratories don't have perfect.

Having said all that, there are a lot of things that go into accuracy before 0.02 gr. powder charge weight makes a difference. Knowing optimal charge weight, jump, uniformity of brass, concentricity, etc. Then there is getting the best performance out of the nut that holds the trigger. If you've got all that down, maybe you'll actually see the difference of a few hundredths of a grain. If so, you're better than I and that would be your next logical step.

 

[centershot]

Back many years ago when I started to dabble in bench rest, a fellow shooter told me that getting the charge down to the last tenth of a grain was a waste of time. He said buy the best bullets you can find. I believe in a .22 they were Remington. Almost no one weighed their charges in the amateur field. Now that bullets have come a long way, I am sure it is more important to weigh.

BTW, does anyone use some sort of a power isolation device on their ac scales? I don't mean an Isobar for pc surges.

 

[Twoboxer]

. . . BTW, does anyone use some sort of a power isolation device on their ac scales? I don't mean an Isobar for pc surges.

I've seen many reports of people adding devices including ferrite beads/cores on the power cords, power line conditoners (which are expensive when actually functional), UPS devices, and more.

The feedback is pretty much the same as for scales themselves. Some report "things got better", some keep adding stuff to eliminate the problem. Remember, the problem with these scales is not restricted to what comes in over the line. So "fixing the line" may or may not work for you.

The problem is solved at $500 for the A&D FX120i, and unplugging the scale when not in use.

 

[boltman13]

CC, I doubt experienced benchrest shooters measure often but most are probably getting +/- 0.1 gr. and the results they get on paper speak for themselves. Keep in mind this is short range BR and most shooters have years of experience.

 

[F Class John]

@boltman13, how many years of practice are we talking about and how accurate do you consider accurate. I use my Harrell’s with my fx120 and trickler. Very efficient and accurate. But, I am varying on avg +/- .2 grains at times with my throws. I don’t consider this to be accurate.

I’m confused that .2 of a grain is the best you can get out of your FX?? They measure to the hundredth so that seems weird to me. You should be getting accuracy in the range of +\-.02 grains. I agree with you that .2 isn’t accurate. That’s a huge variance. A single kernel of H4350 (and a lot of powders) measure around .015 grains so every grain you trickle should only be moving your FX by .02 grains.

 

[jb1023]

I’m confused that .2 of a grain is the best you can get out of your FX?? They measure to the hundredth so that seems weird to me. You should be getting accuracy in the range of +\-.02 grains. I agree with you that .2 isn’t accurate. That’s a huge variance. A single kernel of H4350 (and a lot of powders) measure around .015 grains so every grain you trickle should only be moving your FX by .02 grains.

Just a guess on my part but I think CC was saying his Harrell's will throw +/- .2 and then he has to trickle or scoop. More of a statement on his Harrell's than the FX. Again, that is just how I read it.

 

[Ccrider]

@fclassjohn, @jb1023 has it right. I get to within .02 with my fx. No problems.

As pointed out, my lack of experience is likely driving my +\- .2 when throwing with my Harrell’s. I will continue to throw and work on my consistency.

 

[JimSC]

A single kernel of H4350 (and a lot of powders) measure around .015 grains so every grain you trickle should only be moving your FX by .02 grains.

can't speak for a FX 120 yet but on the Chinese load cell units that go down to .01 gn resolution that when adding kernels of Varget or H4350 that #1 it takes the software a few seconds to "think" about it before registering. When it does register sometimes it will go up .01 gns or .03 gns and tends to alternate. Never an even number and there is that anti drift software hesitation. I am seriously considering upgrading soon just for the faster response time

 

[Ccrider]

can't speak for a FX 120 yet but on the Chinese load cell units that go down to .01 gn resolution that when adding kernels of Varget or H4350 that #1 it takes the software a few seconds to "think" about it before registering. When it does register sometimes it will go up .01 gns or .03 gns and tends to alternate. Never an even number and there is that anti drift software hesitation. I am seriously considering upgrading soon just for the faster response time

Fx120i fixes all of these problems.