222 Low-Drag

[deadduck357]

If you can’t find pre existing data for a case based off the 222 you’re looking in the wrong spots.

Or, you need to learn to extrapolate data from something similar.

Hopefully you don’t end up blowing up.

My apologies, I should have stated with this case design and chamber.

We have used Quickloads as a reference but is not accurate for this.

We are watching and trying to keep it as safe as possible because we (I) don't want that to happen but if its not pushed for testing then there will be no recorded limits.

 

[dedogs]

If my gunsmith didn't know about the .200 line measurement on a case or what a datum is I would be looking for another gunsmith. dedogs

 

[snert]

I just read this entire thread. It scared the hell out of me.

 

[deadduck357]

If my gunsmith didn't know about the .200 line measurement on a case or what a datum is I would be looking for another gunsmith. dedogs

Guess there's gotta be at least one on any forum - didn't expect it here though.

 

[deadduck357]

I just read this entire thread. It scared the hell out of me.

No need to be scared.

 

[dedogs]

Guess there's gotta be at least one on any forum

One what? dedogs

 

[snert]

Hmmm...methinks he means one guy who admits that after reading about a cartridge that is producing velocity disproportionate with the safe parameters of pressure, reported on by a designer who is unfamiliar with measuring datum and has a gunsmith who doesn't know it either, who also is apparently not fully understanding the concerns guys with a lot of experience (wisdom?), and isn't heeding hints and direct concerns voiced by guys who are concerned.

Ok, I am that guy who admits this behavior scares me. Maybe Dedogs is that guy who suggests that someone familiar with wildcat measuring and pressure testing should be advising?

Since apparently words of caution (subtle yells to stop?) don't seem to reach home, I reiterate for any other lurker out there who may buy this "high performance without any side effects" thread "based on secret sauce cartridge design"...don't be "that guy".

There ain't no free lunch.

Deadduck, I mean no disrespect whatsoever to you. I can appreciate your enthusiasm about your design, and the fun you are having. You are here to learn (your own stated reasons). Guys are trying to tell you that you are operating outside the aircraft and you have no chute. Don't end up being an internet hero that will always be remembered by the irony of his screen name.

 

[deadduck357]

One what? dedogs

One that spreads lies or misinformation to gain attention or to increase post/message count.

 

[deadduck357]

Hmmm...methinks he means one guy who admits that after reading about a cartridge that is producing velocity disproportionate with the safe parameters of pressure, reported on by a designer who is unfamiliar with measuring datum and has a gunsmith who doesn't know it either, who also is apparently not fully understanding the concerns guys with a lot of experience (wisdom?), and isn't heeding hints and direct concerns voiced by guys who are concerned.

Ok, I am that guy who admits this behavior scares me. Maybe Dedogs is that guy who suggests that someone familiar with wildcat measuring and pressure testing should be advising?

Since apparently words of caution (subtle yells to stop?) don't seem to reach home, I reiterate for any other lurker out there who may buy this "high performance without any side effects" thread "based on secret sauce cartridge design"...don't be "that guy".

There ain't no free lunch.

Deadduck, I mean no disrespect whatsoever to you. I can appreciate your enthusiasm about your design, and the fun you are having. You are here to learn (your own stated reasons). Guys are trying to tell you that you are operating outside the aircraft and you have no chute. Don't end up being an internet hero that will always be remembered by the irony of his screen name.

Well, I guess that makes at least two here.

Not sure where y'all are coming up with this crap about the gunsmith not knowing about the .200 portion of the case. After it was recommended here the next time I saw him I asked him and he told me that it would be advisable to monitor it, on every case, before and after.

I was unfamiliar with "datum".

As for me not heeding everyone's advise because the cartridge is way over pressured, I do but the chamber is not a normal or match chamber. It was designed to alleviate pressure.

 

[Evlshnngns]

With so little info on the cartridge, everyone is a little on edge. Post some more chrono readings and targets. How are you trying to monetize this?

 

[deadduck357]

With so little info on the cartridge, everyone is a little on edge. Post some more chrono readings and targets. How are you trying to monetize this?

Yes I can see that. And I apologize for that. Was just excited about the results and though I'd post here and though I could also get some help or recommendations.

 

[H65]

This might be helpful:
https://ballistictools.com/store/swage-gage-small-primer-pocket

If you want this to be commercially successful for you, you will first need credibility. Responding as a self-proclaimed novice with insults, to people who are probably being way too gentle about the obvious fact that you're running dangerously high pressures, does not help your credibility. If your cartridge works, at best you will be able to resell dies and reamers, and perhaps manufacture barrels, like a JD Jones or Robert Whitley. But that will first require, at a bare minimum, that others can independently verify the cartridge's performance. Something you seem to resist.

To be clear: your velocity claims are outlandish on their face, notwithstanding whether or not your cartridge design has merit. It could still be attractive even if it "only" performs in line with realistic pressures and velocities, for example by allowing single-load or Valkyrie bullets to be loaded to AR15 mag length with a modern case design. But even if your cartridge works as well as you think it does, an ammunition maker will rebrand it and SAAMI standardize it, and that won't help your pocketbook at all unless you somehow start manufacturing ammunition. You should probably abandon the idea of getting rich off of this in favor of surviving it, and start publishing actual design data.

 

[dedogs]

I'm very excited about this experience and the lack of interest here has me butt-hurt.

Lol I'm not, just thought more here would find it interesting.

One that spreads lies or misinformation to gain attention or to increase post/message count.

You sir are an idiot. dedogs

 

[H65]

As for me not heeding everyone's advise because the cartridge is way over pressured, I do but the chamber is not a normal or match chamber. It was designed to alleviate pressure.

Translation: shallow leade, long freebore. This is the hill you want to die on. OK.

 

[deadduck357]

This might be helpful:
https://ballistictools.com/store/swage-gage-small-primer-pocket

If you want this to be commercially successful for you, you will first need credibility. Responding as a self-proclaimed novice with insults, to people who are probably being way too gentle about the obvious fact that you're running dangerously high pressures, does not help your credibility. If your cartridge works, at best you will be able to resell dies and reamers, and perhaps manufacture barrels, like a JD Jones or Robert Whitley. But that will first require, at a bare minimum, that others can independently verify the cartridge's performance. Something you seem to resist.

To be clear: your velocity claims are outlandish on their face, notwithstanding whether or not your cartridge design has merit. It could still be attractive even if it "only" performs in line with realistic pressures and velocities, for example by allowing single-load or Valkyrie bullets to be loaded to AR15 mag length with a modern case design. But even if your cartridge works as well as you think it does, an ammunition maker will rebrand it and SAAMI standardize it, and that won't help your pocketbook at all unless you somehow start manufacturing ammunition. You should probably abandon the idea of getting rich off of this in favor of surviving it, and start publishing actual design data.

Thanks for posting that link. I have been using that exact tool for a bit but reassuring to know that it's recommended from someone here.

For some reason this is getting off track. I have no intent to insult anyone here but I'm also a person to defend someone that has been unjustifiably defamed. The gunsmith is not standing beside me, he helps when I'm stuck and I ask. Demeaning him because of my inexperience is just wrong.

Again, as I responded a few post ago regarding pressure concerns I will repeat another time - the chamber was designed to alleviate pressures.

I have no grand delusion of becoming rich with this cartridge. As stated many times before I'd just like to be the first to experience it.

 

[deadduck357]

You sir are an idiot. dedogs

WOW!

 

[deadduck357]

Translation: shallow leade, long freebore. OK.

Not quite.

So much negative hostility today.

 

[snert]

Okey dokey. Call it negative, call it whatever you want. I offered my cautions, so now I am gonna hold your beer for you and watch...

 

[xswanted]

Explain a chamber that alleviates pressure.

Detailed.

 

[Evan]

I have no grand delusion of becoming rich with this cartridge. As stated many times before I'd just like to be the first to experience it.

I'm a bit clueless as to why you aren't sharing more about it. You've got a gun, results, pictures, a reamer print presumably with a date on it and your name. You have everything needed to prove when you did it. The only thing that can happen now is other people copy it, and since you have no commercial plans for it, there doesn't seem to be a real downside to that.


Like I said earlier, if you want folks using your exact reamer, you need a catchy name , and then you need a store to provide the reamer and dies at a bare minimum. The more information you create on how exactly it's made, the more tractible it will be for people. It will move from the fringe wildcats into the more accessible ones. Like the Dasher. Not an easy wildcat in pure terms; you're blowing the shoulder forward so far, but there is so much information about it that relatively inexperienced wildcatters feel comfortable giving it a try. If your 222LD is obscure and poorly documented, it'll be just another reamer print in the vaults.

There's A LOT of interest here. Trust me. You're getting all this heat because people are very interested and frusterated with the secrecy. We just want information, the more you share, the more inarguably it becomes yours. You're documenting its originality now. The more completely you do that, the less someone can viably claim they did it before you. Or if they did and documented it, then it still is a great idea resurfacing again and you are strengthening the viability of the design.