Which Scale Check Weights?

[Someoldguy]

This has got to be one of DUMBEST POSTS i have seen,bullets vary in weight,JOIN the NIT CLUB

 

[Baer45]

100grams is 1543.246 grain. Kinda far away for checking powder charge linearity

It is what the makers of the scale says to use...the RCBS comes with 2 50 gram weights or 100 grams total. The Dillon comes with one 50 gram...I don’t think it has to do with whether you are weighing powder or diamonds...

 

[Baer45]

exactly, we are not selling gold or compounding pharmaceuticals so whether a checkweight is 45.2 gns or 45.3 or 45.1 is not relevant to what we are going for. What is important is that same check weight still registers 45.25 grains today, tomorrow and a year from now. I find either a .22 LR or some other 40gn bullet works well for me becasue that is close to all my favorite loads

I also calibrate my scale with 30 grams rather than 100. In the Navy we were taught that a torque wrench is most accurate in the middle of it's range and figure the same logic applies to load cells, maybe not but scale seem sensitive enough to me

The fx120 has a 1 lb. sensor so having 100 grams makes sense and I think you are right. A good weight cost so much because if it says 50 or 100 grams you want to know it does! The two weights with my RCBS are 5grns difference from one to the other. A flake of gold plating wears off and there you go...

 

[mr45man]

Sorry you feel so strongly about my posts. Maybe i should be on your ignore lists so as to not cloud up your reloading prowess. If your scale check bullet varies in weight you should invest in a new scale.

What Dusty said.

 

[Sniper338]

I have a TROEMNER 100 Gram CLASS 1 CALIBRATION WEIGHT. Class 1 would be the the most precise. (I think). this is for use on my fx120i. using this i found that from the retail place i purchased it from, their calibration was off 0.644 grains.

You can sometimes find good, used deals on Ebay for Class 1 calibration weight. I picked the 100 gram because it's set by default. you can change to the 50gram weight.

Same here. Class 1 I have a troemner. They are like 80-100 bucks. Come with a glove to pick it up too.

 

[KenOath]

100grams is 1543.246 grain. Kinda far away for checking powder charge linearity

The guys using the Aluminium powder cup from Area419 on The FX120I would be getting close, that cup looks heavy..

 

[DDRH65PRC]

The guys using the Aluminium powder cup from Area419 on The FX120I would be getting close, that cup looks heavy..

It weighs slightly over 700 grains. Roughly 45 grams.

Fx120i resolution is 0.001g - 122g. Plenty of room.

 

[DDRH65PRC]

Same here. Class 1 I have a troemner. They are like 80-100 bucks. Come with a glove to pick it up too.

I didn't get rubber gloves. But it came with angled tweezers.

 

[rox]

I'm not too concerned about an inert chunk of metal somehow becoming unreliable.

Are most metals inert ? I'm no chemist, but I don't think so.

Exact weight matters none. The best check weight is a bullet that you scratch the weight into and keep with the scale. No need to waste money on check weights

Check weights are designed to resist corrosion, and have storage and handling features to prevent contamination (e.g. from grit & corrosive finger grease), to work with special handling tweezers that hold the weight securely (avoid dropping/damaging/contaminating) and to sit stable when placed in the centre of a balance pan.

I agree that absolute precision is not usually necessary, so the more expensive weights can be avoided. I bought a 50g and a 5g weight, in order to check linearity and to have a quick check-weight close to the region in which I'm weighing; in practice I rarely use the 5g weight, but I do confirm the calibration every day I use a balance.

btw: How do you scratch the weight, and correct for the change in weight caused by scratching the weight?

...and how do you calibrate the balance that you use to weigh the weight before you scratch the weight?

 

[JohnKielly]

How do you scratch the weight, and correct for the change in weight caused by scratching the weight?

Scratch the scal reading first, then tweak until it matches

and how do you calibrate the balance that you use to weigh the weight before you scratch the weight?

Doesn't matter. If the weight balances at a specific point & the check weight matches, then when you return to using that load, you set the scales for the mass of the weight you want to use.

Hey, for decades we were happy with balance scales that the manufacturer claimed only +- .1 grain. I could achieve that variation on a single pan of powder depending whether it lay towards the pointer of the scales, towards the other end, or uniform across the bottom of the pan.

A check weight for a specific load gets it right every time, to your skill in manipulating the scale.

 

[biggun2869]

you kill me Dusty!

 

[1066]

What's wrong with the RCBS or Lyman check weight sets at around $40? I've checked my set against a good calibrated lab scale and found they were too close to worry. They are grain weights and by combining weights you can make up a weight very near the load you intend to use. If you want to be using a powder load of 36.5gns just make up the exact weight (20,10,5,1,.5) with the check weights and make sure your scale reads zero and repeats at that weight. In fact, you don't even need any numbers on your scale.

 

[Howland]

I have a TROEMNER 100 Gram CLASS 1 CALIBRATION WEIGHT. Class 1 would be the the most precise. (I think). this is for use on my fx120i. using this i found that from the retail place i purchased it from, their calibration was off 0.644 grains.

A 100 gram weight that is off by 0.644 grains is Class 7, not Class 1, but that isn't what is really important. What is critical is that you know the exact weight within a known degree of uncertainty.

These types of sets are very accurate as they were made to calibrate actual pharmaceutical scales. These weights were in common use up through the late 1990's when digital scales became the norm. The set above probably cost over $400 when brand new.

Calibration weights are still widely used today to verify some very accurate (and expensive) scales and balances. A good set with calibration certificates is expensive.

I use a set that was found and given to me by a friend who drove a garbage truck, but I compared them on a laboratory analytical balance against a set of calibration weights for which actual weight was established by the state Weights and Measures laboratory and known to a degree so fine I could never distinguish myself. My company paid almost $1,000 for this service.

Yeah, overkill by magnitudes for scales that only read to 0.1 gr.,, but I had the capability at the time and I'm just a little bit OCD. Most people on this forum, and this section in particular, share the same trait.

Ideally your scale should be checked at zero and across the range you will be weighing. My highest powder charge is not quite 100 gr. Add the tray and it's still under 150 gr. I check at 0, 100 & 200 gr. and that's fine.

 

[danny]

I have a set of these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Troemner-A...d:g:vvwAAOSwpHpbCZi4:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true

They are actually 2 complete sets, one is metric and the other is in the traditional apothecary weight system which is based on grains. These types of sets are very accurate as they were made to calibrate actual pharmaceutical scales. These weights were in common use up through the late 1990's when digital scales became the norm. The set above probably cost over $400 when brand new.

I must be missing something. I see no check weights in grains there.

Danny

 

[JimSC]

Sometimes I think we overthink these things. If all it took to get flat velocities then all we would have to do is use a scale with a resolution of .0001 and a fine ball powder and have extreme spreads of 0. Anyone ever looked in a load manual and seen a starting charge of 2.588 grams ?

 

[Depart123]

I must be missing something. I see no check weights in grains there.

Danny

The guy posting the ad doesn't know what he has. I have this exact set. The upper row and midlle row of smaller weights are all in Drams, Scruples and Grains.

A Troy ounce = 480 grains
An Apothecary Dram (not fluid dram) = 60 grains
a Scruple = 20 grains

 

[Baer45]

I don’t know why, but all my scales, to include rcbs, DILLON and fXi all have weights in grams. The book that comes with fXi scale specifically says to calibrate in Grams and when I called the company they explained why (all over my head) and also said a scale was more accurate reading in grams also but the difference was so slight it was not even close to affecting the load. There is a reason Tubb and most of the long range shooters spend $20,000 for scales..new magnetic technology now allows us to get closer to their consistency for around $1,000 and with speed...the fXi has made the biggest difference in long range shooting (in terms of vertical spread) for me then any other single tool I have bought excluding our new VLD Bullets...I don’t really start noticing a difference until I get out past 600 yds and at a thousand yds plus the difference is a hit or miss...this is a crazy hobby that can drive a sane man crazy

 

[ED3]

I don’t know why, but all my scales, to include rcbs, DILLON and fXi all have weights in grams. The book that comes with fXi scale specifically says to calibrate in Grams and when I called the company they explained why (all over my head) and also said a scale was more accurate reading in grams also but the difference was so slight it was not even close to affecting the load. There is a reason Tubb and most of the long range shooters spend $20,000 for scales..new magnetic technology now allows us to get closer to their consistency for around $1,000 and with speed...the fXi has made the biggest difference in long range shooting (in terms of vertical spread) for me then any other single tool I have bought excluding our new VLD Bullets...I don’t really start noticing a difference until I get out past 600 yds and at a thousand yds plus the difference is a hit or miss...this is a crazy hobby that can drive a sane man crazy

I'm curious: What scale are "...most of the long range shooters..." spending $20k on, and what is the benefit does it provide beyond the A&D ?
It would seem any resolution greater than that a kernel of powder is wasted unless one chooses to dissect powder under a microscope.

 

[Baer45]

Do a search on this,web site for David Tubb and/or 6XC. There are more loaders using the $20,000 Prometheus (sp) then you/I would imagine. There is an article here or at 6.5 guys showing his setup on a Dillon 550. There is also another article showing how someone else set up theirs...I love my,A&D like you...my point was that when someone like David who has won more competitions then anyone I know is willing to go to those lengths to get accurate measurements, then obviously there is a benefit to having the best scales we can afford...

Here is one link but there is another with a video showing it working on top of a Dillon 550...he loads all of his match ammo on it...

http://www.6mmbr.com/prometheus.html

 

[ED3]

Do a search on this,web site for David Tubb and/or 6XC. There are more loaders using the $20,000 Prometheus (sp) then you/I would imagine. There is an article here or at 6.5 guys showing his setup on a Dillon 550. There is also another article showing how someone else set up theirs...I love my,A&D like you...my point was that when someone like David who has won more competitions then anyone I know is willing to go to those lengths to get accurate measurements, then obviously there is a benefit to having the best scales we can afford...

Here is one link but there is another with a video showing it working on top of a Dillon 550...he loads all of his match ammo on it...

http://www.6mmbr.com/prometheus.html

The Prometheus website lists the purchase price at $5100 for outright ownership (as opposed to their less expensive leasing arrangement), which prompted me to question the $20k you cite. The article in the above link says $1175, which I suspect is an outdate lease price.
It also shows the accuracy of the Prometheus to be quite similar to the A&D

I know they have been quite popular, but if I'm not mistaken, the one guy I know that had one, a national team member, switched to the A&D/ Auto trickler system, also using a Dillon 550.

I'm not knocking the Prometheus, mostly just curious about your numbers.