Monolithic Bullets In Competitions?

[mdbruce]

Are monolithic bullets being used in competitions, or a certain shooting discipline(s)? I've seen monolithic bullets described as "Match/Target" and was just wondering.

Thank you

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Match/target gets thrown around like SS in the car world

 

[corning]

Alan Warner manufactures a monolithic.

https://www.warner-tool.com/flat-line-projectiles/

They are available in various weights, and calibers. Alan shot the 155's in a Palma match I attended about 3 or 4 years ago.

 

[dmoran]

The monolithic have done well at ELR events.
But have not made much of a mark at all at 100 to 1000 yard events.

 

[mdbruce]

The monolithic have done well at ELR events.
But have not made much of a mark at all at 100 to 1000 yard events.

I was curious why they haven’t made a mark in the 100 and 1000 yard events. Maybe the form and longer profile have adverse affects on benchrest precision?

 

[memilanuk]

The monolithic have done well at ELR events.
But have not made much of a mark at all at 100 to 1000 yard events.

At least as far as F-class goes, part of that is cost - we go through quite a few more bullets in a season than I think most ELR shooters do. Not that some people wouldn't spend the money if they thought it would give them an edge...

...but the people willing to go to those lengths are often interested in shooting internationally as well, and the ICFRA rules specifically prohibit monolithic solids:

F2.20
Ammunition may be commercial or handloaded but loaded in a manner consistent with the
ammunition industry’s accepted standards; must be safe to fire in the rifle for which it is
intended and must meet in all respects the limitations of any range regulations (e.g. calibre,
velocity, muzzle energy etc.). Even if permitted thereunder, prohibited bullets will be those
having a core consisting of steel, hardened material, depleted uranium, incendiary or tracer
compounds. Also prohibited are bullets of monolithic construction or those having a discarding jacket/sabot. ​

 

[dmoran]

Maybe the form and longer profile have adverse affects on benchrest precision?

In speculation only, my thoughts are on those same lines as you thinking.

Maybe some day I'll get to testing them more (or others in my circle), but my current opinion is: for distances under ballistic supremacy, lead core bullets are capable of more precision.

Will also speculate: as designs and testing of monolithic bullets continue, a day will come (sooner then later) that monolithic technology will compare to lead-core bullets at mid & long range distances as well, but doubt they ever will at shorter range distances.

 

[dcali]

They only really seem to have caught on in ELR where BC is king and round counts are low. For other long range disciplines, they aren’t really optimal and can be difficult to dial in. That, and they cost a small fortune.

 

[dcali]

I was curious why they haven’t made a mark in the 100 and 1000 yard events. Maybe the form and longer profile have adverse affects on benchrest precision?

This is correct. The longer the range, the more BC matters. And the longer the bullet, the less accuracy it tends to have. The characteristics that reduce drag are the same ones that cause billets trouble when it comes to stability and overall sensitivity. At 100 short stubby bullets are optimal. At ELR, the long solids dominate. In between, at 1000, the optimal bullets tend to be longish jacketed bullets, but even some of the longer of those are causing some shooters some frustration. I don’t expect solids to take over f class or benchrest any time soon. Never say never, though.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

I've shot a couple thousand monolithic bullets in my time and one thing I've noticed is they can be very fussy about bore diameter, & throat configuration. Finding a good match isn't easy in most cases. - With 3 styles (Bore-Rider with a driving band, Hybrids, and Full-Bore) of projectiles usually one will show a preference in a particular type of throating configuration. Also I believe that the material they are turned from makes a difference. (UNC3600 Bronze and Copper). - Overall, with more offerings on the market they are progressing in accuracy potential but I don't believe they are anywhere close enough for short or long range Benchrest shooting at this time even though a few amazing groups have been shot with them. (which is not the norm).

 

[mdbruce]

I've been trying to get a better understanding of bullet design, and how it relates to jump/jam and flights characteristics. Whether jump/jam was more pressure related, or more related to a bullet design. In-depth information is hard to find on the net. May be one of those things where it's best learned by just shooting rather than reading.
I'm curious about the "heavy for caliber" bullets.

 

[mike mccormick]

As far as I understand, reading the NRA high power rules, monolithic bullets are not permitted.

 

[Ned Ludd]

As far as I understand, reading the NRA high power rules, monolithic bullets are not permitted.

Where did you see that? Currently, monolithic bullets are permitted in F-Class, a subdivision of Highpower. However, a Rules Committee meeting was held back in November and monolithic bullets were supposed to be a topic of discussion. As yet, I have not heard what the results of that discussion may have been.

The main objections to monolithic bullets appear to be cost and performance, which I find pretty ridiculous considering the number of F-Class shooters using $2500 to $3000+ scopes, bipods costing $500 to $600 (or more), front rests costing $1000 to $1500 (or more), personal E-targets or camera systems costing or $800 to $1000 (or more)...the list goes on and on. Heck, 1000 pcs of quality brass will cost in the neighborhood of $750 or more, let alone powder, primers, and other expendable components. Most F-Class shooters using a custom rifle will spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $6000 to $8000 (or more) for a complete setup (rifle/scope/bipod/rest/etc.) Let's face it, increasing costs are inevitable in this game if you want to be competitive over the long haul. Pretending you're keeping costs down by penalizing those that choose to buy and shoot monolithic bullets is pretty ridiculous, IMO.

As far as performance, I think the jury is still out on the use of monolithics for F-Class, at least. I have tried them and I know a few others that have also tried them, and they're definitely not a "gimme" in terms of loading. My feeling is that they are more difficult to tune initially, and more more difficult to keep in tune over time. In addition, you will generally need a much faster twist barrel chambered appropriately to shoot them. Such a rifle setup almost by definition will be a one trick pony as most lead core competition bullets prefer a markedly different chamber and twist rate for optimal performance.

So it really boils down to IF you are willing to set up a rifle specifically for monolithics, IF you can get them tuned, and IF you can keep them tuned, then you MIGHT enjoy the obvious benefits of the very high ballistic coefficients the monolithics offer. As mentioned, I have such a setup and have been using them recently, and have not yet reached a conclusion as to whether they offer any realistic competitive advantage over traditional lead core bullets. I wanted to try them for some time just for fun and out of interest to see what they could do. I can afford the cost of a setup purpose-built to shoot them, as well as the [relatively] insignificant cost of the bullets themselves, but I'm not at all convinced they are "game-changers" at this point.

 

[Beau]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but monos, being made of a lighter material than lead, seem like they wouldn't be as ballistically efficient as lead bullets.

 

[corning]

The main objections to monolithic bullets appear to be cost and performance, which I find pretty ridiculous considering the number of F-Class shooters using $2500 to $3000+ scopes, bipods costing $500 to $600 (or more), front rests costing $1000 to $1500 (or more), personal E-targets or camera systems costing or $800 to $1000 (or more)...the list goes on and on. Heck, 1000 pcs of quality brass will cost in the neighborhood of $750 or more, let alone powder, primers, and other expendable components. Most F-Class shooters using a custom rifle will spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $6000 to $8000 (or more) for a complete setup (rifle/scope/bipod/rest/etc.) Let's face it, increasing costs are inevitable in this game if you want to be competitive over the long haul. Pretending you're keeping costs down by penalizing those that choose to buy and shoot monolithic bullets is pretty ridiculous, IMO.

Ahh, the proverbial "equipment race" that everyone maligns, and worries about.

One thing that everyone seems to forget is that there is no such thing as a "magic bullet"!

 

[Ned Ludd]

Beau - certainly they have a lower sectional density, which is why they are so long for a given bullet weight, and therefore require much faster twist rates. Nonetheless, the very long and pointy shapes of some monolithics lend themselves very well to extremely high BC values.

 

[Jdne5b]

They have been tried in F-class, by quite a few accomplished shooters. The secret recipe hasn't been found yet... or we'd see people using them, regardless of cost.

 

[mdbruce]

I mainly wasn't sure if monos figured out an insensitive bullet design that can fly equally well at all distances.
I'm skeptical in nature, so I assumed not.

Is what I initially had in mind was a cartridge/bullet combo that performs well at all distances.
As I become more knowledgeable i realize that I can't have your cake and eat it, too.