Extraction issue on 700

[Dusty Stevens]

You’re assuming that all of those actions have this problem. That clearly is not the case. Manufacturing tolerances. Some will be positioned correctly by accident. Some will be close enough to work and some will be so far off they don’t work at all. Question is which one do we have here?

Have you ever seen one that was right? The only accidental ones ive seen barely catch the ramp at the back. And ive seen and fixed many hundreds over the years of building many many rifles per year

 

[STS]

Ggmac brings up a good point that also plays a role in extraction and that is the distance from the bolt face to the working surface of the extractor. If that dimension is greater that the thickness of the rim on the case by more that a few thousandths you loose effective extraction. Remove the ejector (not the extractor) and slip a case in the bolt. See how much fore and aft clearance you have. If there's .010 or .020 play there you loose that much extraction potential. The bolt has to move rearward that much before it even comes in contact with the case.

 

[STS]

Have you ever seen one that was right? The only accidental ones ive seen barely catch the ramp at the back. And ive seen and fixed many hundreds over the years of building many many rifles per year

I have seen many Remington actions with .100 or more primary extraction right from the factory. I trued one about a month ago and after the machining it still had .105 of primary extraction. More than enough to extract well.

 

[6MMsteve]

use the feeler gauge after you fire a round and see what happens, I use epoxy on my savages 2 drops then file it down even using a mic, been working great for 4 yrs on 2 rifles for primary extraction.... I have my ear plugs in here we go...shade tree quick fix but it worked

 

[6fatrat]

What Don said.
My first match rifle was a 40-X B, it was on it's 2nd barrel. I shot 6 more barrels on this action 2 of these I set back , turned it into a 243 Win sporter 20+ years ago.
The original riveted extractor is still working great at well over 20,000 rounds.
Also original firing pin at well over 100,000 pin falls.
Steve Bair

 

[HTSmith]

OP, I'm hoping you will post the eventual fix here. It would be very instructive. Thanks

 

[K22]

Before you start cutting on the bolt it might be a good idea to fully diagnose the problem. There’s a pretty good chance your problem isn’t the extractor at all. Your action may have primary extraction issues because the bolt handle is positioned incorrectly on the bolt. That action relies on the root of the bolt handle cramming off of the receiver to extract the case. If the bolt handle is too far to the rear you will have minimal extraction. Take a feeler gauge and find the maximum gap between the front of the bolt handle and the rear of the bolt handle cut out in the receiver. It should be somewhere in the .010 range. If it’s much more than that you may have your diagnosis right there.

I'm intrigued by this - so it's more than .010 how do you fix it? I'm not being flippant, I'm just curious how you go about fixing that. Reason - I have a 223 Rem Model 7 that had extraction / ejection issues. I had a Sako extractor installed and it solved the extraction problem but I still have ejection issues. The gap on mine is approx. .020.

 

[STS]

I'm intrigued by this - so it's more than .010 how do you fix it? I'm not being flippant, I'm just curious how you go about fixing that. Reason - I have a 223 Rem Model 7 that had extraction / ejection issues. I had a Sako extractor installed and it solved the extraction problem but I still have ejection issues. The gap on mine is approx. .020.

To resolve the problem the bolt handle needs to be repositioned to the correct place on the bolt tube. The extractor cam surface needs to be timed (timed to the correct rotation of the bolt)as well as the fore and aft position. I'm not a fan of Sako extractors in the Remington bolt. They tend to eject at an upward angle that can cause issues.

 

[4xforfun]

OP, I'm hoping you will post the eventual fix here. It would be very instructive. Thanks

Yep...I'll get back to it eventually. Had a family member have major health issues Christmas Eve and today I spent 14 hours on the road doing a dealer trade!!

 

[_Raining]

Before you start cutting on the bolt it might be a good idea to fully diagnose the problem. There’s a pretty good chance your problem isn’t the extractor at all. Your action may have primary extraction issues because the bolt handle is positioned incorrectly on the bolt. That action relies on the root of the bolt handle cramming off of the receiver to extract the case. If the bolt handle is too far to the rear you will have minimal extraction. Take a feeler gauge and find the maximum gap between the front of the bolt handle and the rear of the bolt handle cut out in the receiver. It should be somewhere in the .010 range. If it’s much more than that you may have your diagnosis right there.

I thought an issue with primary extraction was that you had to punch the bolt back in order to extract the round vs letting the camming action of the bolt lift do it for you, is that not correct?

 

[STS]

I thought an issue with primary extraction was that you had to punch the bolt back in order to extract the round vs letting the camming action of the bolt lift do it for you, is that not correct?

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking but you should not have to "punch the bolt back" to extract the case. The design on the action includes cam surfaces to do that job. The issue is do those cams work as designed.

 

[_Raining]

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking but you should not have to "punch the bolt back" to extract the case. The design on the action includes cam surfaces to do that job. The issue is do those cams work as designed.

So what I meant is, from my understanding there are two issues that can happen with regards to extraction.

There is primary extraction which is the bolt handle is timed correctly then the brunt of the initial extraction work to break the case free from the chamber will be done by the cams when you lift the bolt. The the bolt handle is too far away and there is little to no cam contact then there will be no primary extraction and you will have to extract the round by pulling back on the bolt, if you have an over pressure round or neck size only then this could be very difficult and may require you to tap the bolt handle to get the round to extract.

The second issue is when the extractor slips off the round. This is what the OP is saying is happening and I am not sure what bolt timing has to do with it. It seems to me like the extractor is going to slip off the case regardless of if you have a bolt timing issue with primary extraction or not.

Again, I am not saying you are wrong, I am just trying to understand the relationship between primary extraction and the extractor not holding onto the case.

 

[STS]

OK, gotcha. The whole system has to work together to get the job done. If the extractor is not staying in contact with the case it doesn't matter how much PE the action has it won't work.

 

[Drop Port]

Oh...and...it is a .532 magnum bolt face with an aftermarket Rock Creek (?) 300 Wby bbl.

.532 mag face is the most common failed extractor. I always laugh when I think about my first failed extractor. It was on a 338 Win Mag custom shop African Plains rifle on the third shot. That custom shop 700 was the most F&#@#! up rifle I've ever owned.

 

[4xforfun]

Remove the firing pin assembly and put the bolt handle into the firing position. Find the largest feeler gauge that will fit between the front of the bolt handle and the receiver in the bolt notch. The rear of the bolt handle is not important.

OK...so I finally got back to the buisness at hand. I pulled the pin asy and started sticking feeler gauges in there as instructed above.. I ended up needing to double up my feelers and got to the .015-.017 + the .016-.018 TOGETHER for a total of .032 - .035. I then pulled the bolt out of my 700 EDGE to compare. I only could get the .009 - .011 to fit.

So, now, what is the next move??

A little good news....I checked the twist.......not 1-12 like I was told.......but a 1-10 twist!! Yippy!! So the FIRST two shot group out of the gun with a 200 Berger is like a .15!! @ 80 RL 25 and under .5 @ 81 RL 25....all off a bipod!! So...it has promis!!


Thanks,
Tod

 

[STS]

Sent you a PM. It will be easier to explain and not take forever to type it out.

 

[Rust]

I have a Sendero in .338 RUM, bought it when they first came out. First thing to fail was that stupid riveted extractor. Looking at it closely it looked to have been installed by a monkey with a rock, the second was that the portion which engaged the extractor groove of the case was deformed. Maybe the metal was a little soft and bent? Anyway, the second extractor did the same thing. The cases are NOT stuck in the chamber, using a cleaning rod takes virtually NO force, in some instances banging the butt of the rifle on the bench drops the cases out and it isn't a hard bang either. Never had this problem with any .308 or .223 size 700 bolt.

My smith retired and I'm sure not going to try to drill out the rivet freehand and so am looking for a smith in the NW Florida or SW Alabama with the right staking anvil.

I've considered going with a mini-14 or Sako extractor. I'm a little leery of it, but I figure the only way to blow an extractor down the raceway is to blow a case which to me at least indicates a dangerously hot load.

It's all irritating because that particular rifle is just stupidly accurate.

 

[4xforfun]

Thread revival. I Just figured i would let you guys know what I ended up doing. I talked to form member STS and after a brief discussion he had me call a gentleman up in AK to have my bolt timed. Before I sent it off I ran a bunch of brass through it and it wouldn't pull half of them . Got it back and it pulls every one I chamber.....every time!!
Simple and quick!!!

Thanks,
Tod