Expert advice needed, please...

[Kwahe]

Hello all...new poster to this forum, though I've been lurking on and off for years.

I have a question about Norma 203B (RL-15) and the 6.5x55. According to the few burn charts where it appears, 203B sits very close to IMR 4064, IMR 4895 and IMR 4320, but it is slightly slower. Hodgdon lists 4064 and 4895 on its load tables for 120g, 140g and 160g bullets but of course, 203B is not there. Norma says this powder is appropriate for up to 120g loads but is not included in the heavier bullet loads. What do you reloading scholars think about trying this powder with 140g and 160g loads? My rifle is ex-military...thanks

 

[joshb]

I can’t help you with your question but I can suggest H100V for the 6.5-55. It works great with 120s in my old Swede .

 

[jds holler]

Now, see here is a new guy with a Sweed, not a Creed. God bless you my son. And welcome to the forum.

Oh, I know nothing about Norma 203B. I do have a jug of Reloader 15, and am I to understand that it is the same as 203B?? Perhaps it is you who is teaching me. I haven't even tried my RL 15 for anything yet. jd

 

[Steve Ladino]

I think you would be better served with something slower, H4831 would be, is my pick for the military 6.5 Sweed + 140's . If I were to load R-15 I would start at 34 grains with the 140's

 

[243winxb]

Norma 203B (RL-15

This powders burn rate would seem to fast for top velocity? But would be worth trying using RL-15 data posted here. http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm This site may block you?

Starting load 34.7gr/140 or 35gr/160 gr. This data is strange. I would think the starting load for the 160 gr would be lower then the 140 gr data? This data may be to HOT?

See data below.

 

[2506]

With the Swede small ring Mauser actions which I assume you have you need to keep your loads under 46000 CUP pressure so be very careful with any of the new loading data for modern rifles. Now as a side note keeping the 6.5x55 loaded under the 46000 CUP range is no real hinderance as long as you keep your barrel length long like the original Model 96 Swede Mauser's 29 inch barrel. I have a number of these rifles and one is a sported out scoped hunting rifle. I have hand loaded for these rifles for around 25 years. As for accuracy loads for target shooting bullets like the 140 Sierra match king using a moderate load of IMR 4895 is a tack driver but the velocity is only around 2450 fps. This is in the ball park of what your 203B (RL 15) should get you because it is in the ball park of the burn rate of IMR 4895. Now if you want higher velocity you want slower burning powders. My favorite powder is Accurate 4350 I use it with 120 and 140 gr bullets for high velocity hunting loads. The Accurate loading manual list their max loads as being under 46000 CUP. Using these max loads in my 29 inch barrel sported out hunting rifle I average 2950 fps with 120 Sierra Pro Hunter and Nosler BT bullets and with 140 Sierra Game King or Hornady interlock I get 2800 fps and 1/2 MOA accuracy. Both loads are real deer killers. I remember reading in one of the older loading manuals something like this. "Feed the Swede most any medium to slow burning powder and it will sing a pretty tune."

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Welcome to the forum. I dont have anything to add but it looks like these guys have you covered

 

[Medic505]

I dont have anything to add

That right there sport fans is a bonafide first...LOL

 

[243winxb]

From 1999 Alliant powder guide i have. Can be found online at http://castpics.net



Listed loads are maximum. Reduce 10% for a starting load.

 

[Zero333]

Quickload shows case fill for 140 and 160 gr bullets in the 6.5 swede is less than 85% with Max loads. That's probably why reloading data doesn't have the 203B with heavier bullets.

But for reference and your own curiosity, here is some Quickload data for Norma 203B with 140 and 160 grainers in the 6.5 Swede...
=================================================

Cartridge : 6.5 x 55 Swedish
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady BTHP 26335
Useable Case Capaci: 52.334 grain H2O = 3.398 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.150 inch = 80.01 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Norma 203B

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 67 32.32 2254 1579 31427 8195 97.8 1.634
-18.0 69 33.13 2302 1647 33260 8390 98.3 1.599
-16.0 70 33.94 2350 1716 35184 8575 98.8 1.565
-14.0 72 34.74 2397 1786 37202 8749 99.2 1.532
-12.0 74 35.55 2444 1856 39319 8912 99.5 1.490
-10.0 75 36.36 2490 1927 41539 9063 99.8 1.451
-08.0 77 37.17 2536 1999 43867 9202 99.9 1.414
-06.0 79 37.98 2581 2071 46307 9329 100.0 1.378
-04.0 80 38.78 2626 2144 48866 9445 100.0 1.344 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 82 39.59 2670 2216 51548 9559 100.0 1.310 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 84 40.40 2714 2289 54361 9671 100.0 1.279 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 85 41.21 2757 2363 57310 9782 100.0 1.248 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!


+00 highlighted in bold is the Max according to QL and it states
84% case fill
40.4 gr charge weight 203B
2,714 fps
2,289 ft-lbs muzzle energy
54,361 psi chamber pressure
9,671 psi muzzle pressure
100% powder burned
1.279 milliseconds of barrel time (irrelevant unless you have QL and care).
=======================================================

Cartridge : 6.5 x 55 Swedish
Bullet : .264, 160, Sierra SP SemiSp 1750
Useable Case Capaci: 53.306 grain H2O = 3.461 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.150 inch = 80.01 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Norma 203B

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 64 31.52 2126 1606 31987 8185 99.1 1.724
-18.0 66 32.31 2170 1673 33798 8359 99.5 1.688
-16.0 67 33.10 2213 1740 35692 8523 99.7 1.653
-14.0 69 33.88 2256 1807 37673 8676 99.9 1.615
-12.0 71 34.67 2298 1876 39744 8817 100.0 1.574
-10.0 72 35.46 2339 1944 41909 8947 100.0 1.534
-08.0 74 36.25 2380 2013 44171 9074 100.0 1.496
-06.0 75 37.04 2421 2082 46535 9200 100.0 1.459
-04.0 77 37.82 2461 2151 49006 9324 100.0 1.424 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 79 38.61 2500 2221 51588 9447 100.0 1.390 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 80 39.40 2539 2291 54285 9569 100.0 1.357 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 82 40.19 2578 2361 57104 9689 100.0 1.326 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
=====================================================

Keep in mind different type of bullets have different amount of bearing surface engaging the rifling thus creating different amount of pressure.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I shoot 160 grain round nose with 40 grains of H-4350. Very accurate and comfortable to shoot during our military bench rest matches. Sighters and 20 rounds for score. Gustav over 110 years old. Cheers

 

[Kwahe]

Holy cats! Thanks so much! All offers are valuable advice for me. I asked about this powder because I found it and the 120g Sierra Spitzer extremely accurate in my M94 with its (modified) 18-inch barrel. I saw a post on another site where someone used IMR 4320 and a 144g bullet and it was a 5 shot one-holer. 4320 is faster than 203B, so I wondered...

The posters who recommend slower powders are right on, of course, and I have loaded several Swedes (not Creeds) in the past, including this rifle, with these powders. Some do darned well but not like 203B and the Sierra 120g.

I am especially thankful for your post 243winxb (you have amazing internet search skills) and Zero333 for running QuickLoads for me. Above and beyond, sirs! And jds...your comment is akin to my being carded at the local pop stand...a great honor! I've been legal for 51 years! Thank you!

While waiting for your informed replies, I was contacted by a Norma tech who said they didn't put 203B in the loads for bullets heavier than 120g because pressures came up so fast AND because the cases don't fill to satisfactory standards. In synch with you, 243.

I am no longer interested in speed loading as I neither hunt (anymore) or shoot over 200 yards. I am perfectly willing to put up with velocities around 2000-2200fps if they can get me a one hole group of 5 with this rifle. The closest I came with this rifle was with Lapua 155g Mega case and powder with a Sierra 140g MK...4 shots in a near cloverleaf and one flier. It was a miracle for these old eyes and an aperture sight at 50 yards. I would dearly love to know what that powder is, but I suppose it's some proprietary blend or something...right?

My other most-accurate load ever in a milsurp was with a Finn captured 91/30, 47g of H4350 and a 174g SMK. Yikes, that was a fun rifle!

 

[Had2muchofForums]

IMR 4451 also works very well in the Swede, great accuracy at proper velocities.

 

[StephenBachiler]

Hello everyone. I am new to reloading and am going to start now with my 1896 Mauser (1913). I was able to buy some IMR 4064 and some Hornady 147gr. I also have some PPU 139gr FMJBT and PPU 156gr SPRN. I have 2 reloading books (Hornady & Speer). I have a few questions if you are willing to help:

1. Is this powder acceptable?
2. Are there rounds acceptable?
3. When I look in these manuals I see my powder listed, but only referenced for lighter bullets...the 4064 is not listed for bullets in the 140s and higher range. Is there another source (other than than my reloading manuals) where I can find powder grain ranges?
4. Any other knowledge you all would willing to provide?

Thank you

 

[6BRA]

Now, see here is a new guy with a Sweed, not a Creed. God bless you my son. And welcome to the forum.

Oh, I know nothing about Norma 203B. I do have a jug of Reloader 15, and am I to understand that it is the same as 203B?? Perhaps it is you who is teaching me. I haven't even tried my RL 15 for anything yet. jd

Is it for sale?

 

[243winxb]

Is there another source

Old Post Warning. New poster.
https://www.speer.com/reloading/rifle-data.html

Use data for Military Actions only. 6.5 x 55mm Swedish Mauser

 

[243winxb]

https://shop.hodgdon.com/reloading-data-center Use 160 gr bullet powder charge, 33 grs IMR 4064 as maximum.

 

[StephenBachiler]

Holy cats! Thanks so much! All offers are valuable advice for me. I asked about this powder because I found it and the 120g Sierra Spitzer extremely accurate in my M94 with its (modified) 18-inch barrel. I saw a post on another site where someone used IMR 4320 and a 144g bullet and it was a 5 shot one-holer. 4320 is faster than 203B, so I wondered...

The posters who recommend slower powders are right on, of course, and I have loaded several Swedes (not Creeds) in the past, including this rifle, with these powders. Some do darned well but not like 203B and the Sierra 120g.

I am especially thankful for your post 243winxb (you have amazing internet search skills) and Zero333 for running QuickLoads for me. Above and beyond, sirs! And jds...your comment is akin to my being carded at the local pop stand...a great honor! I've been legal for 51 years! Thank you!

While waiting for your informed replies, I was contacted by a Norma tech who said they didn't put 203B in the loads for bullets heavier than 120g because pressures came up so fast AND because the cases don't fill to satisfactory standards. In synch with you, 243.

I am no longer interested in speed loading as I neither hunt (anymore) or shoot over 200 yards. I am perfectly willing to put up with velocities around 2000-2200fps if they can get me a one hole group of 5 with this rifle. The closest I came with this rifle was with Lapua 155g Mega case and powder with a Sierra 140g MK...4 shots in a near cloverleaf and one flier. It was a miracle for these old eyes and an aperture sight at 50 yards. I would dearly love to know what that powder is, but I suppose it's some proprietary blend or something...right?

My other most-accurate load ever in a milsurp was with a Finn captured 91/30, 47g of H4350 and a 174g SMK. Yikes, that was a fun rifle!

Hello...your situation sounds like mine.

https://shop.hodgdon.com/reloading-data-center Use 160 gr bullet powder charge, 33 grs IMR 4064 as maximum.

Thank you. Perfect

 

[StephenBachiler]

Old Post Warning. New poster.
https://www.speer.com/reloading/rifle-data.html

Use data for Military Actions only. 6.5 x 55mm Swedish Mauser

Thanks!!