Sorting Bullets

[David Christian]

Base to ogive. Here is a good tool.

 

[Scott Harris]

View attachment 1073765 Base to ogive. Here is a good tool.

This tool is SO much faster than the others...good upgrade

 

[Nature Boy]

I keep thinking I need to be sorting bullets. The other day I measured base to ogive on a box of 180g SMKs (.308 win).

I took 5 that measured the same and took 5 from the highest and lowest and loaded up the two groups.

I went and shot each group of 5 at 100. Measured same on the left. Highest and lowest the right.

Even admitting to myself the non statistical sample size this represented, I found the urge to sort bullets began to subside and a calm came over me that lasted for at least a day.

But the lingering doubts soon crept back and I started worrying again. Was I doing enough to get the most I can out of me, my rifle and my ammo? The answer is always and forever, NO!

In all seriousness, I really want to test this again with enough of a sample to be worthwhile. Even Brian Litz says it’s the most important variable. I’m sure he’s got to be right

 

[Ned Ludd]

Nice! There's nothing like actually testing to help decide whether some kind of sorting may help tighten groups, and to determine whether or not you can actually shoot the difference.

 

[Bojo]

I started sorting first , then went to trimming and pointing. At least now I consistently miss my intended target in smaller groups.... wind and mirage education is coming from the school of hard knocks

 

[mikeeg02]

I keep thinking I need to be sorting bullets. The other day I measured base to ogive on a box of 180g SMKs (.308 win).

I took 5 that measured the same and took 5 from the highest and lowest and loaded up the two groups.

I went and shot each group of 5 at 100. Measured same on the left. Highest and lowest the right.

Even admitting to myself the non statistical sample size this represented, I found the urge to sort bullets began to subside and a calm came over me that lasted for at least a day.

But the lingering doubts soon crept back and I started worrying again. Was I doing enough to get the most I can out of me, my rifle and my ammo? The answer is always and forever, NO!

In all seriousness, I really want to test this again with enough of a sample to be worthwhile. Even Brian Litz says it’s the most important variable. I’m sure he’s got to be right

Try that test again at 500 yards. I bet you'll see a significant difference. The farther out you go. The more it matters. Though you'll need to be more considerate of conditions.

Edit: nice shooting though!

 

[Nature Boy]

Try that test again at 500 yards. I bet you'll see a significant difference. The farther out you go. The more it matters. Though you'll need to be more considerate of conditions.

Edit: nice shooting though!

I was wondering that Mike. I’ll run it again at 500 with a larger sample size, on a calm day, when time permits

 

[Ned Ludd]

It's certainly possible you could see a slight difference between the two sort groups of bullets you shot above at 100 yd, if you stretch the range out to 500 yd. However, I'm much more inclined to doubt that you will reliably be able to shoot the difference between bullets sorted solely by BTO. Even if you can, it's likely to be very minor difference. In contrast, simply switching to a better bullet would far more likely to give you appreciable gains right away, without having to sort anything. The venerable 180 SMK was a good design in its day, but there are much newer and better options currently available in the same weight class. For example, 180 JLKs, 185 Juggernauts, 185 Hybrids, or even the 175 TMK markedly surpass the 180 SMK in terms of BC. Loaded to comparable precision, any one of those bullets would provide a significant advantage in terms of reducing wind deflection without sorting, although you certainly could still sort them if you wanted.

 

[Nature Boy]

185 Hybrids

That’s what I shoot in F Class now.

The commodity I find myself in the most need of is time.

 

[mikeeg02]

It's certainly possible you could see a slight difference between the two sort groups of bullets you shot above at 100 yd, if you stretch the range out to 500 yd. However, I'm much more inclined to doubt that you will reliably be able to shoot the difference between bullets sorted solely by BTO. Even if you can, it's likely to be very minor difference. In contrast, simply switching to a better bullet would far more likely to give you appreciable gains right away, without having to sort anything. The venerable 180 SMK was a good design in its day, but there are much newer and better options currently available in the same weight class. For example, 180 JLKs, 185 Juggernauts, 185 Hybrids, or even the 175 TMK markedly surpass the 180 SMK in terms of BC. Loaded to comparable precision, any one of those bullets would provide a significant advantage in terms of reducing wind deflection without sorting, although you certainly could still sort them if you wanted.

I missed where he had only sorted base to ogive on the ones that where sorted. I know my lot of Sierra 107s sorted bto better than my lot of hybrids, but the hybrids shot better on average.

I do believe if he sorted them bto, then bearing surface, and then maybe even weight, and had a good load, you would see it at 500. Specially in a ten shot group.

Since sorting more thoroughly then weight only, I'm not getting unexplained fliers in 1k matches like I was previously. Again, the further out you go, the more these things matter. Specially when trying to stay consistent for aggregates.

 

[JFrank]

I missed where he had only sorted base to ogive on the ones that where sorted. I know my lot of Sierra 107s sorted bto better than my lot of hybrids, but the hybrids shot better on average.

I do believe if he sorted them bto, then bearing surface, and then maybe even weight, and had a good load, you would see it at 500. Specially in a ten shot group.

Since sorting more thoroughly then weight only, I'm not getting unexplained fliers in 1k matches like I was previously. Again, the further out you go, the more these things matter. Specially when trying to stay consistent for aggregates.

How many sort Bullets to the degree JET does ?

 

[mikeeg02]

How many sort Bullets to the degree JET does ?

I dont have a juenke machine. But reading his methods, hes probably a benchrest competitor. Very similar to how I do it.

A lot goes in to trying to keep things consistent enough to do decent competing at 1,000 yards. Some of the work can be avoided by using custom bullets. But even they still should be sorted. Just less piles.

Edit: some of it depends on how competitive you want to be. And maybe who you're shooting against.

 

[JFrank]

I believe Jet does dabble a bit in the Benchrest world

 

[Ned Ludd]

The usefulness of sorting bullets largely depends on what you're going to do with them; some disciplines certainly require more effort than others. Nonetheless, if you've sorted, subdivided, and separated every single bullet in a large Lot from each of the others, it's not really sorting anymore - you're just shooting individual bullets .

 

[JMayo]

I do not think 100 yards would

The usefulness of sorting bullets largely depends on what you're going to do with them; some disciplines certainly require more effort than others. Nonetheless, if you've sorted, subdivided, and separated every single bullet in a large Lot from each of the others, it's not really sorting anymore - you're just shooting, SORTED, individual bullets .

FIFY !

 

[JFrank]

Weigh them first. Then before seating measure ogive. Put like ogives together.
I shoot in 5's.
View attachment 1073594

Do you develop a load for each pile

 

[BenPerfected]

This tool is SO much faster than the others...good upgrade

Faster compared to what others?

 

[JMayo]

Do you develop a load for each pile

I put the same powder amount. However They are made the same length from lans.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I do not think 100 yards would

FIFY !

I don't agree with your alteration. If you buy 500 bullets, sort them fifty ways from Sunday using every possible aspect that can be sorted, and end up with 500 sort groups, then you're basically back to what you originally had in the box before you opened it: 500 individual bullets. I certainly advocate sorting bullets as a means to improve consistency, but my point was that when taken to an extreme, sorting approaches can also sometimes be counterproductive. JMHO.

 

[JFrank]

Sorry but I have to ask
What is FIFY