Bedding squareness

[nmkid]

One of my builds from a couple of years ago is going to get a new barrel this winter. The stock is a, "Stocky's" aluminum bed type. I skim bedded it when it was new. How would I check to see whether or not the action is binding up? I think I remember reading something along the lines of, " tighten up the stock screws and see if anything moves!? How would I check if anything moves? The rifle sports a heavy 30" barrel. When I place the barreled action on the stock there seems to be a "pivot"(?) point somewhere. I can literally rock it back and forth. When I noticed this I thought to myself , "it's rocking on the recoil lug". Placing my left hand on top of the scope and my right thumb on the tang will take away the rocking motion. I have always thought the rocking motion is because of the weight of the barrel. No, the recoil lug is not touching on the bottom. I have never been able to shoot any groups under .750. I've been told that maybe that's as good as the gun is going to shoot. Anyway, I'd like to able, somehow, check to make sure it's not the stock. Would hate to put on a new barrel and have the same problem(?).

 

[alinwa]

One of my builds from a couple of years ago is going to get a new barrel this winter. The stock is a, "Stocky's" aluminum bed type. I skim bedded it when it was new. How would I check to see whether or not the action is binding up? I think I remember reading something along the lines of, " tighten up the stock screws and see if anything moves!? How would I check if anything moves? The rifle sports a heavy 30" barrel. When I place the barreled action on the stock there seems to be a "pivot"(?) point somewhere. I can literally rock it back and forth. When I noticed this I thought to myself , "it's rocking on the recoil lug". Placing my left hand on top of the scope and my right thumb on the tang will take away the rocking motion. I have always thought the rocking motion is because of the weight of the barrel. No, the recoil lug is not touching on the bottom. I have never been able to shoot any groups under .750. I've been told that maybe that's as good as the gun is going to shoot. Anyway, I'd like to able, somehow, check to make sure it's not the stock. Would hate to put on a new barrel and have the same problem(?).

The eezy cheezy way is to put 'er all together..... "torque" the screws to "your torque setting" and then put the wrench into the front screw while holding (pinching) your fingers onto the joint/gap between the forend and the barrel.

Now work the front screw with the wrench.

Do you feel movement between the barrel and stock?

The better way to do it is to jig it up in a stock-holding fixture like this https://www.berrysmfg.com/item/versacradle and do the same thing but with a dial indicator reading the movement. A small mag base dial indicator will often stick to the barrel, or you can rig up a clamp, but any-road you get a dial set up betwixt barrel and forend top and work the screws.

If stuff moves, is bug'arupped

 

[nmkid]

Thanks. I'll try the first suggestion tomorrow afternoon.

 

[hoz53]

Thanks. I'll try the first suggestion tomorrow afternoon.

alex wheeler has a video how to do that on his site

 

[earlcurtis67]

I clamp the rifle in a wood vise clamped to my metal work bench, then you can move a mag base dial indicator to check at different points along the action. I biught one of these jsut for general use. E
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2NE4P8/?tag=accuratescom-20

 

[LC Tikka]

I'd clamp the barrel in a vice to do the checks, much easier to handle the lighter stock.
LC

 

[nmkid]

Well, kinda lost here. I ordered a base magnetic dial indicator from Amazon should be here today. So, at present my plan is to put the rifle in my bench mounted barrel vise. Seeing as how I have a 30" barrel, (complete rifle weighs 14 lbs.) should I secure the barrel as close to the fore end as possible? I guess in my mind, I need to achieve some sort of balance to prevent weight of the rifle influence. I'm thinking if I clamp the barrel out too far, the hanging weight of the rifle itself would have some influence. But, then I think, if I'm only releasing one stock screw at a time, the remaining screw should still keep the stock firmly attached to the action??!! Unless there is some serious binding. HELP!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The binding is what youre looking for. But a 30” barrel on a 14lb gun i doubt youll pass this test- its going to be out of balance favoring the front in a huge way

 

[BoydAllen]

Some years ago, I did the dial indicator bedding test with the rifle vertical, standing on its butt to minimize the effect of barrel weight. In effect the barreled action is supported by the recoil lug.

 

[nmkid]

Some years ago, I did the dial indicator bedding test with the rifle vertical, standing on its butt to minimize the effect of barrel weight. In effect the barreled action is supported by the recoil lug.

So, I got the dial indicator. I stood the rifle upright and clamped the barrel on my vise in between to pieces of board. The results...Rear screw, I got .002 of movement. Front screw...I got .030 of movement!! When tightening up the front screw I could see movement right at the fore end. Don't know if it was the stock flexing. When I did a skim bed on it I ended up with some Devcon just in front of the recoil lug. I didn't think it was touching...Now I don't know. Back downstairs to check it.

 

[gunnermhr]

So, the big question. Was it an exceptional shooter before? If so, why would you change it? I understand the concept of stress free and after talking to a close friend of mine we started checking. My worst one is .010" I've been pretty successful with that set up. I'm not changing. The bigger question is this, he lent a gun out for a shoot off, it shot a 3.375" 10 shot group on paper at a 1000 yards, funny thing is, when he checked the stock he found it moved upwards of .030" he wants to "fix" it, I think hes nutz. i know the time and care that was put into the chamber job, so it tells me once again, if the machine work is good and the guy pulling the trigger is good how much input is there really in the "stress free" bedding

Just looking for answers, not an argument. Heck, hes got me half convinced we should redo it, his that is, mines not changing

 

[tobnpr]

I've always felt that a properly done bedding job (in a previously unbedded stock) can never hurt consistency, only help. Beyond that I'm a firm proponent of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

 

[Jesse Gietzen]

i've used 20 mil pipe wrap tape on the receiver and recoil lug. any high spots left during inletting leave an indent on the tape. pretty easy to find high spots that way. a receiver pivoting on a high spot is a no go for me.

edit1: if the rifle is clamped in a barrel vise upside down, the movement you're tracking is the stock, not the barreled action. probably a lot easier this way, as the stock is presumably a lot lighter and easier to manipulate.

 

[Lucky Shooter]

In the world of shooters, we often follow what "they" say. Some of the time
we don't even know who "they" are.

I followed the scheme that the action should be stress-free and learned to bed
actions that were "stress-free"-----until the weight of the barrel introduced stress
on the action. This has worked very well for many years.

Well, along comes a guy with solid credentials as a gunsmith/writer----with
an article in the American Rifleman, Norman E. Johnson.

Mr. Johnson's method was to bed the action with the weight of the barrel inducing
stress on the action. This makes a lot of logical sense----bedding the action in the
position it will be in when fired. Certainly something for me to think about.

Do you think that maybe we should think about bedding from the simple standpoint
that the action position should not change from shot to shot ? The whole "shooting system"
is set up such that it starts each shot from relatively the same position.

This is something to think about over here. I wish I knew all the answers and often wish I understood
all I know.

A. Weldy

 

[Dusty Stevens]

In the world of shooters, we often follow what "they" say. Some of the time
we don't even know who "they" are.

I followed the scheme that the action should be stress-free and learned to bed
actions that were "stress-free"-----until the weight of the barrel introduced stress
on the action. This has worked very well for many years.

Well, along comes a guy with solid credentials as a gunsmith/writer----with
an article in the American Rifleman, Norman E. Johnson.

Mr. Johnson's method was to bed the action with the weight of the barrel inducing
stress on the action. This makes a lot of logical sense----bedding the action in the
position it will be in when fired. Certainly something for me to think about.

Do you think that maybe we should think about bedding from the simple standpoint
that the action position should not change from shot to shot ? The whole "shooting system"
is set up such that it starts each shot from relatively the same position.

This is something to think about over here. I wish I knew all the answers and often wish I understood
all I know.

A. Weldy

How can you bed an action stress free with the barrel not supported during curing? You would have to put the screws in it to keep it level which throws the stress free out.

 

[nmkid]

So, the big question. Was it an exceptional shooter before? If so, why would you change it? I understand the concept of stress free and after talking to a close friend of mine we started checking. My worst one is .010" I've been pretty successful with that set up. I'm not changing. The bigger question is this, he lent a gun out for a shoot off, it shot a 3.375" 10 shot group on paper at a 1000 yards, funny thing is, when he checked the stock he found it moved upwards of .030" he wants to "fix" it, I think hes nutz. i know the time and care that was put into the chamber job, so it tells me once again, if the machine work is good and the guy pulling the trigger is good how much input is there really in the "stress free" bedding

Just looking for answers, not an argument. Heck, hes got me half convinced we should redo it, his that is, mines not changing

It was never a good shooter from the get go.

 

[nmkid]

Well, I removed the Devcon from the front of the lug and did some light sanding on the stock in the area around the lug. I can now slip a piece of paper down in that area between the stock and the metal. Got it put together. The reading on the rear screw was still at .002, (ever so slightly off the mark, (+) so, I called it .002. The front now came in at .005! Unfortunately, I shouldn't have done both things, (bedding/sanding removal) now I don't know what helped. Then the phone rang, it was Lowe's calling to tell me my new snow blower had arrived. Gotta wait until Monday before I get a chance to shoot it.

 

[Lucky Shooter]

Dusty,

Question:
How can you bed an action stress free with the barrel not supported during curing? You would have to put the screws in it to keep it level which throws the stress free out.


Short answer:

No screws during final bedding.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/gunsmithing_simple_action_bedding_secret_020911/99102

This link goes to a Shooting Times article by Reid Coffield-----if you can make it work.

Mr. Coffield possibly didn't emphasize putting a small amount of epoxy around the recoil lug to locate it
for final bedding. I talked to him recently and he said he's used this method for many years .

The keyboard is not my friend and I'm taking all the shortcuts I can.

I'm not a gunsmith nor a machinist and my methods might not suit others. I'm retired and time doe not equal money.

Its late here for an old man-----will be back tomorrow to clean up any loose ends. I think I might have plowed
up a snake but will be back.

A. Weldy

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty,

Question:
How can you bed an action stress free with the barrel not supported during curing? You would have to put the screws in it to keep it level which throws the stress free out.


Short answer:

No screws during final bedding.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/gunsmithing_simple_action_bedding_secret_020911/99102

This link goes to a Shooting Times article by Reid Coffield-----if you can make it work.

Mr. Coffield possibly didn't emphasize putting a small amount of epoxy around the recoil lug to locate it
for final bedding. I talked to him recently and he said he's used this method for many years .

The keyboard is not my friend and I'm taking all the shortcuts I can.

I'm not a gunsmith nor a machinist and my methods might not suit others. I'm retired and time doe not equal money.

Its late here for an old man-----will be back tomorrow to clean up any loose ends. I think I might have plowed
up a snake but will be back.

A. Weldy

that's definitely one way to do it. I do the exact same thing but use tape so that saves a day. So did you post the link to a story that credited you (Allan)? you definitely didn't plow up a snake- everybody needs to have a bunch of tricks in their bags to make it thru any situation and this is definitely one everybody needs to have

 

[alinwa]

OK, I'm completely and totally confuzed......

I read this whole thing because "somebody (Norman E Johnson?) figgered out how to bed an action "stress-free"....... but with the barrel hanging, ie "pre-stressing the action"

So I'm picturing cantilevers and recoil lugs setting on firm supports and all sorts of things that could "pre-stress" the receiver, giving it the bend it has with a barrel hanging on it. WHILE still letting it gravity float....I'm picturing skyhooks and side-clamps, hanging the assembly off a rod, or off the bolt itself..... I've Rube Goldberged myself into a puddle and



I see an article about some dude (Reid Coffield??) kludging in a couple acraglas supports and later chipping them out with a bread knife????

Seriously? Instead of tape??

What did I miss????...... where's the part about "stress-free with the weight of barrel flexing the action".....??? Cuz that IS intriguing!