Bedding squareness

[BoydAllen]

The thing that I would want to know about Mr. Johnson is how his rifles shoot in competition. Lots of people have written about gunsmithing and bedding. Some methods have been superseded at the cutting edge of accuracy. If you are building a varmint rifle using a Mauser action what works best may be quite different from what is best for building a target rifle based on a very stiff single shot action, with a lot of bedding area. When I a looking for methods and equipment to copy, I look a the most recent winners, what they are using, how it was built, and by who.

 

[Lucky Shooter]

Back again-----another day.

This method is my own kludge----can't palm it off on anyone else.

One of the reasons for going this way was a very poor one-----working with
action screws through wet epoxy has been a nightmare for me----too much
of a mess to deal with.

However, the main thrust was to bed the action----usually Rem's---stress free.

I think the results have been stress free----until the pads are removed from
under the barrel.

There are no claims that this is any better than other methods.

Dusty----I think all your questions have been resolved. I've used tape around
the barrel but thought epoxy pads might have less give-----don't really know
its worth the extra time and effort but I have some time for such.

Boyd----Your ability to find out how the "winning rifles" are built is a winning
shortcut, if you have access to the info. I don't think I have such access and
would like to hear how these rifles are built. Maybe I can follow such methods.

I've bedded only one serious BR action-----a heavy Viper SS. This one was
bedded to be stress-free during bedding and shot very well with good barrels.

Al-----I've followed your posts for several years and appreciate your tendency
to "think out of the box"-----probably something the shooter's world needs.

I know you are not confuzed nor confused and I don't think you are confused
with the difference between disagreement and confused. Have your fun at my
expense, I usually wear big boy britches over a tough skin-----but----please
do not belittle good people who are not on this forum and can't defend themselves.

I'll still look forward to your posts and still wish you lived just a few miles down the
road from me.

Shoot'em good.

A. Weldy

 

[BoydAllen]

I like the idea of suspending the action over its bedding by two wide spaced supports under the barrel. In contemplating doing that when bedding some stocks that I have that may not have barrel channels perfectly aligned with their action bedding, I have also thought of cast supports, with the barrel wrapped with several layers of tape at those locations. The point would be that once the tape was removed, the barrel to stock clearance would be built in. I have also thought of putting painters tape in the channel, under the bedding compound supports to make taking them out easier, after bedding the action. The stock in question is an old 40X rimfire single shot prone, that I opened the barrel channel on a long time ago. Since the work was done with hand tools, there is not way that the gap is even all the way around or the same front to rear, which rules out tape. The existing bedding needs to be reworked for a different action and I have learned a bit since that one was done, but I want to retain the existing pillars, and just redo what is on top of them. Back then, I was of the opinion (and I still am) that having the same thickness of bedding compound over the pillars as under the rest of the action is a good idea. They are custom pillars that were made with wider tops than bottoms, to give more support under the bedding. I also milled out a wide trench from the front pillar to the rear of the lug mortise. I figure that once I have the supports in, that I can wrap headless action screws in tape, to a snug fit in the IDs of the pillars (that will be waxed) do a trial fit, and then get busy removing some of the old Devcon plastic aluminum, and rebed the action, suspended by its barrel. What do you think?

 

[alinwa]

today......I'm milling out after rough bedding a Panda into a blank, flattopped Kelbly stock



Here's the barreled action suspended in the bedding pool. The "clamp" is there because I balance the assembly on the tape ring so that it's actually LIFTING the action slightly. The clamp isn't "clamped" at all, it's just there exerting a finger's-worth of pressure keeping the action from lifting up out of the pool of bedding.


Here's the roughed up stock into which I guzzled a pile of bedding compound and


Here's what I dropped into the pool.


Couple of things that may help/pertain to the op's "squareness" question. #1, when working with a "flattopped blank" or in other words a blank where the inletting has not been established, one must pick a centerline, a vertical orientation line and also locate the barreled action fore and aft. The last two pix show how I chose to do this on this pertickler build. Note the vertical line drawn on the butt cut and note the small, blind "locating screws" installed into the bottom of the prep'd action.

All this work because I was sent the wrong action and stock. I DO NOT recommend any of this! But this barreled action is now fitting into the stock stress-free and perfectly square/aligned.

On a side note. For all y'alls that may try this. I tried something a poster here on site recommended re the barrel channel. I slipped a bicycle inner tube condom over the barrel. The barrel channel came out freakin' awesome BUT!!!

But.....

I learned something.

The poster who suggested the bicycle tube used Brownell's spray release agent on the rubber inner tube. And "it worked good"

I used Kiwi Neutral Show Polish.

AND IT DIDN'T!!!

HOLEeeeee SchNEIKE I did fight to get the barrel free. I wax everything because the Brownell stuff is thick like latex paint. For fitted bedding it's completely useless because the "fit" is about as tight and th'owing a cat down a culvert...... BUT, I can state with fair certainty that if you choose to mold a barrel channel using an inner tube from a bike DO NOT wax it and hope for the best You be slobber that rubber with any and all sloppy KY or Brownell's goop and belay the "fit!"

rant off

blood pressure down

LOL

al

Ohhh well, break's over.... back to the grind (ing)

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Back again-----another day.

This method is my own kludge----can't palm it off on anyone else.

One of the reasons for going this way was a very poor one-----working with
action screws through wet epoxy has been a nightmare for me----too much
of a mess to deal with.

However, the main thrust was to bed the action----usually Rem's---stress free.

I think the results have been stress free----until the pads are removed from
under the barrel.

There are no claims that this is any better than other methods.

Dusty----I think all your questions have been resolved. I've used tape around
the barrel but thought epoxy pads might have less give-----don't really know
its worth the extra time and effort but I have some time for such.

Boyd----Your ability to find out how the "winning rifles" are built is a winning
shortcut, if you have access to the info. I don't think I have such access and
would like to hear how these rifles are built. Maybe I can follow such methods.

I've bedded only one serious BR action-----a heavy Viper SS. This one was
bedded to be stress-free during bedding and shot very well with good barrels.

Al-----I've followed your posts for several years and appreciate your tendency
to "think out of the box"-----probably something the shooter's world needs.

I know you are not confuzed nor confused and I don't think you are confused
with the difference between disagreement and confused. Have your fun at my
expense, I usually wear big boy britches over a tough skin-----but----please
do not belittle good people who are not on this forum and can't defend themselves.

I'll still look forward to your posts and still wish you lived just a few miles down the
road from me.

Shoot'em good.

A. Weldy

Far from belittling you sir i assure you. Your way does exactly what needs to be done. Us youngsters tend to look for shortcuts. I for one am very glad you posted it- i like to have 32 ways at least to skin every cat (now i have 33 on that particular breed). So please dont think anybody is belittling you and if you see another post getting to an end and you see a shortcut- or a longcut- please chime in and let us know!

 

[alinwa]

Al----- Have your fun at my
expense, I usually wear big boy britches over a tough skin-----but----please
do not belittle good people who are not on this forum and can't defend themselves.

I'll still look forward to your posts and still wish you lived just a few miles down the
road from me.

Shoot'em good.

A. Weldy

I wasn't having fun at your expense.....

Nor belittling anyone. I genuinely want to see Norman's method for pre-stressing the action. It IS the next step beyond "stress-free"

I must have simply misunderstood you. I klicked in while "in work mode" as I've been down madly fixing a mess where I was SUPPOSED to get an inletted stock and an Atlas action in the mail. And instead got a Kodiak and a freakin' BLANK! To "whip up" a left-handed hunting rifle out of! (The Kodiak doesn't even ACCEPT a side safety.....)

I saw "squareness" and "bedding" and kinda' fixated....

sorry

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I can see why someone might consider the idea stressed bedding. Not a terrible idea, but I want to throw out a couple of thoughts.
The stock can either help the action remain straight (a lot are not but thats another topic) or it can put a bind in the action. It takes surprisingly little to bind and unseat a lug on a tight bolt like a Bat.
I can also see the idea of wanting the the bedding to be in the state of stress that the rifle is while at rest, but the instant the bullet starts to travel down the bore, the rear ward force in line with the bore begins to lift the barrel out of the stock. Thats if the center of gravity is some where below the bore and it usually is. So in reality the rifle's state is closer to the "stress free" bedding job when the bullet is traveling down the bore. Its only in this stressed state when its not being fired.
Interesting topic...

 

[Lucky Shooter]

No sweat Al-----please continue to be Al, the guy with fresh ideas.

A. Weldy

 

[Lucky Shooter]

Al---
The wax shoe polish didn't wok for me either------many have praised it over the
years so maybe I did something wrong.

The best thing I've used was Johnson's Paste Wax-----my supply lasted for years
but is gone now. I bought a new supply but haven't used the new stuff.

Boyd---
Don't know why your plan wouldn't work

I might be inclined to be concerned about the alignment between the action
and the forend------adjust the barrel channel as required for clearance unless
appearance is a major concern. Also maybe I misunderstood.

Let us know how this goes.

A. Weldy

 

[alinwa]

Al---
The wax shoe polish didn't wok for me either------many have praised it over the
years so maybe I did something wrong.

OK, so let me be clear...

I USE KIWI NEUTRAL SHOE POLISH FOR EVERYTHING...... WITH GREAT RESULTS.

I absolutely require wax as my bedding release. I've used all sorts of waxes on moulds up to 5ftX2ft, different stuff from statuary to concrete fence boards to gunstock and aeroflage layups.

Except it din't work on the rubber inner tube.

The inner tube idea'r from here on the board was awesome! And the guy who posted it was very clear and explicit.

I just din't LISSEN.....

And I PAID

 

[BoydAllen]

Al---
The wax shoe polish didn't wok for me either------many have praised it over the
years so maybe I did something wrong.

The best thing I've used was Johnson's Paste Wax-----my supply lasted for years
but is gone now. I bought a new supply but haven't used the new stuff.

Boyd---
Don't know why your plan wouldn't work

I might be inclined to be concerned about the alignment between the action
and the forend------adjust the barrel channel as required for clearance unless
appearance is a major concern. Also maybe I misunderstood.

Let us know how this goes.

A. Weldy

The stock was bedded for another action, and that bedding holds everything in good alignment with the stock. I will use it to set up my barrel contact points and then grind some of it away and bed over the top with the same material. That should leave the alignment as it was, with the addition of stress free bedding for the new action.