Exactly! No need to even wait until they leave.... Excuse me sir, you don't seem to be using the center of your target. Mind if I borrow it?
Most People Are Fooling Themselves.....
- Thread starter alinwa
- Start date
Exactly! No need to even wait until they leave.... Excuse me sir, you don't seem to be using the center of your target. Mind if I borrow it?
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
The day BEFORE deer season. See my previous post about buying targets.
MikeMcCasland
Team Texas F-T/R
As hogpatrol says above, the weeks leading up to deer season (i.e. right now) is a lot like pulling up a chair at a public boat launch during the 4-July holiday weekend. Every redneck and their brother takes their deer rifle out of the closet to put their annual "box of shells" through it to make sure it'll kill bambi dead. There's always a few trainwrecks to watch. Matter of fact, I listened (against my will) to a husband and wife almost get a divorce over sighting in their deer rifles this morning.
As others have posted though, it's important that you help if asked, and at least try to put them on the right path; even better if you do so with a good attitude. I agree with those that post about being in a "bubble"; I don't talk to anyone at a range unless spoken to first, or if I see someone who knows what they're doing and there's a opportunity to talk while we wait for a ceasefire etc. The latter is unfortunately rare at my "home field".
I dont post on here very often, but today was one of those moments. I was helping at my kids event and I heard someone talking about a botched hunt last year and how they gut shot one. They almost acted half cocky and proud over it. Now I do enjoy eating meat, and so does my family. What has it come to anymore though. That is not sport, more in less cruelty to make the animal suffer. I guess to reiterate a post previous, know your limitations and stay within them.
What really sucks is when you walk down to check your target and after looking at it you eyeball the other shooters .......trying to figure out who else is shooting at YOUR target besides yourself....................Ask me how I know.
Mark
We get that here a lot. There are tourists and college students from all over the world and they all seem to head to a range to “ experience America” by shooting a gun. There are lots who see exotic gunplay in movies and they have no idea how clueless they are about gun handling. Last week my shooting partner and I left the range early because she felt unsafe shooting next to a group of thes clowns.
Well, this topic certainly has gained some life. I typically am not a prolific contributor to the Forum but this thread brings many thoughts to mind and I could write a book about it. Fredo suggests that we should all keep our pie-holes shut and put up or shut up. He also states that he avoids the “public” range. That’s all well and good if you have access to a private range but that’s not the majority of shooters. I could have a 100 yard range at home but still use the club facilities 99% of the time. Our club is only open to the public (non-members) for Sight-in days during the fall and for matches. So, it is not a “public” range. Our club facilities are most excellent and just 6 miles from my home and I spend a fair amount of time there.
I also contest the statement that we all were at the same level as those that we are disparaging. Maybe that’s true for technical knowledge. I don’t think that is true in respect to safe firearms handling. Gun safety is non-negotiable. Gun safety is a mindset that some people never adopt. Those same people are likely those that only handle a firearm once a year for hunting season. When you have groups of people in any organization there have to be policies, rules, and restrictions along with enforcement. It’s nice if you can go through life with a COEXIST attitude but that doesn’t work with groups of people. Invariably someone will choose not to regiment.
The gun club that I belong to has some 2500+ members. We have a 600 yard range with pits, a 300 yard rifle range, a 100 yard rifle range, and about 10 pistol pits. All of the firing points for our rifle ranges are covered. There is also one trap house but it sees little use. I moved here and became a member in late 2014. I am retired and started volunteering as an RO last winter as one way to give back to the club and also as a way to help elevate the Safety Consciousness of the membership. Those members who participate in all of the rifle competitions, pistol competitions and other matches generally demonstrate very good gun handling. But those shooters are a small fraction of the membership. I also spend time mentoring less experienced hunters and shooters, on an individual basis, on basic shooting and reloading skills. In fact, I spent the morning Saturday helping a friend get his 300 Win Mag sighted in with his new Swarovski scope in preparation for a Wyoming Elk Hunt in December. So rather than operate in a COEXIST bubble, I do what I can to help shooters improve in technical and safety space.
With over 2500 members the club spans the full spectrum of shooters from novice to expert. Most of my shooting is done on the 100 yard range where there are close to 20 benches. Although I am witness to some pretty poor shooting, that doesn’t bother me. The shooting sports need all the participants that we can get to defend our 2nd Amendment. Most of the time I inhibit my curmugeon tendencies in order to not diminish someone else’s enjoyment on their day-off by demonstrating a condescending attitude. However, I have to dig deep to be diplomatic about poor gun handling and safety rule violations. With my RO hat on, I feel an obligation to represent the club in a professional manner. Even at that, there have been instances when correcting a member for a rule infraction, I’ll get some lip. Those interactions are character building opportunities that I try to approach with tact and diplomacy. We only have one RO on duty at a time for the entire range for access control with Match Range Officers conducting the events. We have cameras around but their coverage is kind of general. Most of my observations of safety violations occur when I am using one of the ranges and not on duty. Like Boyd said, there should be a RO on duty at each range but we have trouble getting enough volunteers just to man the gate house. The last thing that I want to see is for the club to make the 5 o’clock news because of some member or guest didn’t follow safe gun handling practices. So, when I am there, I do insure the other shooters on the range are in compliance. There are a lot of things that I see people doing that they could do better but it’s not my time or money that is being spent. I will help others if asked, considering that sportsmanship.
I also contest the statement that we all were at the same level as those that we are disparaging. Maybe that’s true for technical knowledge. I don’t think that is true in respect to safe firearms handling. Gun safety is non-negotiable. Gun safety is a mindset that some people never adopt. Those same people are likely those that only handle a firearm once a year for hunting season. When you have groups of people in any organization there have to be policies, rules, and restrictions along with enforcement. It’s nice if you can go through life with a COEXIST attitude but that doesn’t work with groups of people. Invariably someone will choose not to regiment.
The gun club that I belong to has some 2500+ members. We have a 600 yard range with pits, a 300 yard rifle range, a 100 yard rifle range, and about 10 pistol pits. All of the firing points for our rifle ranges are covered. There is also one trap house but it sees little use. I moved here and became a member in late 2014. I am retired and started volunteering as an RO last winter as one way to give back to the club and also as a way to help elevate the Safety Consciousness of the membership. Those members who participate in all of the rifle competitions, pistol competitions and other matches generally demonstrate very good gun handling. But those shooters are a small fraction of the membership. I also spend time mentoring less experienced hunters and shooters, on an individual basis, on basic shooting and reloading skills. In fact, I spent the morning Saturday helping a friend get his 300 Win Mag sighted in with his new Swarovski scope in preparation for a Wyoming Elk Hunt in December. So rather than operate in a COEXIST bubble, I do what I can to help shooters improve in technical and safety space.
With over 2500 members the club spans the full spectrum of shooters from novice to expert. Most of my shooting is done on the 100 yard range where there are close to 20 benches. Although I am witness to some pretty poor shooting, that doesn’t bother me. The shooting sports need all the participants that we can get to defend our 2nd Amendment. Most of the time I inhibit my curmugeon tendencies in order to not diminish someone else’s enjoyment on their day-off by demonstrating a condescending attitude. However, I have to dig deep to be diplomatic about poor gun handling and safety rule violations. With my RO hat on, I feel an obligation to represent the club in a professional manner. Even at that, there have been instances when correcting a member for a rule infraction, I’ll get some lip. Those interactions are character building opportunities that I try to approach with tact and diplomacy. We only have one RO on duty at a time for the entire range for access control with Match Range Officers conducting the events. We have cameras around but their coverage is kind of general. Most of my observations of safety violations occur when I am using one of the ranges and not on duty. Like Boyd said, there should be a RO on duty at each range but we have trouble getting enough volunteers just to man the gate house. The last thing that I want to see is for the club to make the 5 o’clock news because of some member or guest didn’t follow safe gun handling practices. So, when I am there, I do insure the other shooters on the range are in compliance. There are a lot of things that I see people doing that they could do better but it’s not my time or money that is being spent. I will help others if asked, considering that sportsmanship.
rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
I politely converse with anyone that is violating safe gun handling protocols. Their call on how the dialogue proceeds. Realizing we’re all fallible, I also welcome input from others regarding my actions.
Downhill
Gold $$ Contributor
I watched a guy with a pencil barreled 270. Shooting at a paper plate at 100 yards. Shoot, crank on the scope, shoot, crank on the scope- repeatedly. Fired a box, 20 rounds in about 4 to 5 minutes. Declared "that's close enough". Got up and left. When line was cleared I went to replace my target. The paper plate had 2 holes in it. Close enough? For what? Elephant or barn?
On the idiot side we had some college kids shooting, most had no firearm experience at all. The RO and myself decided it a good idea to keep an eye on them. While one young lady was firing an AR her friend decided to walk down range to video her friend shooting. This resulted in a barrage of booming "CEASE FIRE!CEASE FIRE!" from the RO and myself. Both young ladies got upset and started crying. We tried to explain the severity of the infraction but it was thought that we were "just mean".
On the idiot side we had some college kids shooting, most had no firearm experience at all. The RO and myself decided it a good idea to keep an eye on them. While one young lady was firing an AR her friend decided to walk down range to video her friend shooting. This resulted in a barrage of booming "CEASE FIRE!CEASE FIRE!" from the RO and myself. Both young ladies got upset and started crying. We tried to explain the severity of the infraction but it was thought that we were "just mean".
I used to volunteer to watch and clean up at the local public range. I used to shoot there a lot too. The ignorance is amazing, the lack of knowledge of gun safety is frightening. There were more than a few times that I asked people to leave.
The average "hunter" is a very poor shot, with poor equipment, and little to no knowledge about what they or their equipment is capable of.
I have had others at the range ask for my help, which I give. I have had others look over at my targets and get visibly irritated. I have never seen another target that was even close to moa, more like 2.5 to 3 was the best. Most are about 6 to 8 minutes at 100 yards.
One of the benefits of cleaning up at the range was that I would take down targets. I accumulated a pile of targets that had maybe 2 or 3 holes in them and many that were untouched.
The average "hunter" is a very poor shot, with poor equipment, and little to no knowledge about what they or their equipment is capable of.
I have had others at the range ask for my help, which I give. I have had others look over at my targets and get visibly irritated. I have never seen another target that was even close to moa, more like 2.5 to 3 was the best. Most are about 6 to 8 minutes at 100 yards.
One of the benefits of cleaning up at the range was that I would take down targets. I accumulated a pile of targets that had maybe 2 or 3 holes in them and many that were untouched.
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
I found a lot of people don't understand the meaning of "no handling of firearms when people are down range".
Some BS lines I've heard when this rule is violated:
"I was just adjusting the scope". (Oh, that's not attached to the firearm? and with a closed bolt)
"I'm just going to clean it". (as they grab the gun and put their hand close to the trigger)
"I'm just moving it to the rack". (with a closed bolt and a 30 rd. mag in and one in the chamber)
"I'm done and going home". (that negates the handling rule)
"The safety is on and it's empty anyway". (and you're betting someone else's life and your entire financial future on that"?)
"I was in the war". (combat vets, I love 'em, but in my experience, they're the most unsafe guys on the range).
"I'm an LEO and I know how to handle firearms". (see above).
Many more but this is the best: "It's not loaded".
Some BS lines I've heard when this rule is violated:
"I was just adjusting the scope". (Oh, that's not attached to the firearm? and with a closed bolt)
"I'm just going to clean it". (as they grab the gun and put their hand close to the trigger)
"I'm just moving it to the rack". (with a closed bolt and a 30 rd. mag in and one in the chamber)
"I'm done and going home". (that negates the handling rule)
"The safety is on and it's empty anyway". (and you're betting someone else's life and your entire financial future on that"?)
"I was in the war". (combat vets, I love 'em, but in my experience, they're the most unsafe guys on the range).
"I'm an LEO and I know how to handle firearms". (see above).
Many more but this is the best: "It's not loaded".
Enjoyed your perspective, thank you!
But, don't read too much into my words. Never said anything about "put up, or shut up". Rather, just that it feels like a get a bone in my craw to read how some shooters here resort to "venting" & disparage other shooters, when they could be doing the opposite. As you've shared that you do, at your club...kudos!
Also, never said anything about "avoiding" the public range, rather that I simply mind my own business when I'm there. And, more importantly, I respect the notion that others shooters on the line may be of the same mindset, therefore don't tend to morph shooting time into a social event.
As for safety rules, that issue is pretty cut & dried. If ANY range has incapable RO's, returning ever again is simply NOT happening. I can certainly empathize with RO's having to deal with a line full of shooters, but that's their job...not mine!!! That's why we pay to play at our public range, so it's appreciated when ROs are proficient at what they do...since we're paying for it!
I think all shooters can agree that if anyone, at any range, is being unsafe when handling/operating a firearm, that transcends all, in favor of not seeing someone get shot! Getting off topic, its a given that none of us wanna share a live fire range with an unsafe shooter.
Again, this isn't about COEXIST bumper sticker sumchit. This is about shooters helping fellows shooters out, instead of b!tchin' about their ignorance. That's the part that ties into Life, in general: You can be part of the solution, or part of the problem. Your choice! Still, there's that quip about "leading a horse to water...", so all we can do, is try. And it ain't like they teachin' this stuff in school, so doesn't it behoove ALL OF US to help each other, if/when the opportunity arises???
Good shooting!
pirate ammo
Guaranteed to take the wind out of their sails
could be guilty of that one, was after pigs all night, pulled my mag and put my gun on the work bench and went home 4:00 A.M. in the morning. When I got back at 9:00 A.M.
got to thinking,worked the bolt,out flies 1 loaded 308 round, so I'm guilty.Only good thing,this rifle is not out when I'm open, and no one else touches it.
My mistake and I admit it,
We solved the RO/RSO issue by declaring "no RSO on duty...range is closed" works too.
My local range i have seen about everything. I roll in with my f open equipment which is nice until i go to a event, then its bottom rung 
. I instantly get all kinds of questions which i happily answer but seldom does anyone ask for help. Could i help them, maybe, im a novice at competition, but i would most certainly try. It is amazing how many people cant hit a target, my son shoots sub moa most of the time. I think that one really irritates people at the range.
. I instantly get all kinds of questions which i happily answer but seldom does anyone ask for help. Could i help them, maybe, im a novice at competition, but i would most certainly try. It is amazing how many people cant hit a target, my son shoots sub moa most of the time. I think that one really irritates people at the range.Well said Fredo ,you nailed it...all this negative internet crap gets pretty old . I try to live by this one...
muleman69
USMC -1st marine Div. RVN
Those vets didn't train where I did or they would still be doing pushups
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