223AI and the 53 vmax???
- Thread starter Phil
- Start date
B23
Gold $$ Contributor
Pretty much all I've shot in my 223ai is the 53gr Vmax. Mine is built on a Rem 700 with a 22in. Hart 1-9tw barrel. You'll likely hear all kinds of crazy velocities because these little cases will take a lot of abuse but realistic numbers, depending on barrel length, will be in the 3400-3600fps range.
rockhound78
Silver $$ Contributor
Mine isn't a fast twist (1-12), but getting a touch over 3500 with the 53gr. 24" tube
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Phil, I shoot 12T with zero freebore, 53's are 3800 out of a 27" barrel, 3850 is a max load in my rifles. I shoot IMI brass made by lapua long ago.
Fast twists will knock the load down some in velocity as it increases pressures and makes for a tighter tune window. Long freebores bleed off a lot of pressure with resulting velocity loss as I found as the throats got long and larger in dia in my barrels. My load is 28g of H335 with either a Rem 7 1/2 primer or a CCI BR-4 with 450's blowing the groups. Benchmark is 100fps+ slower at the accuracy node, same primers.
Fast twists will knock the load down some in velocity as it increases pressures and makes for a tighter tune window. Long freebores bleed off a lot of pressure with resulting velocity loss as I found as the throats got long and larger in dia in my barrels. My load is 28g of H335 with either a Rem 7 1/2 primer or a CCI BR-4 with 450's blowing the groups. Benchmark is 100fps+ slower at the accuracy node, same primers.
24" 8t and 9.5t CBI 3500-3600 with 53 vmax. 8208 is my powder choice.
WOW, 3800 from a 53gr bullet is getting into .22-250 performance. Thats quite the hurdle for a significantly smaller case to clear. 3600 sounds like a more reasonable expectation for a 53 from a long barreled .223AI...
Phil, why not just run a 75-80?
Are 53s cheaper?
Do they blow up that much mo-betta?
Are you only shooting <300yds, where the initial flatter trajectory is an asset?
If you're shooting far enough to dial for drop, you're gonna dial, whether it's a 53 or 75. But, the heavy is gonna earn ya some wind cheatin' once they get out there a bit...
Just playin' point vs. counter point!
Phil, why not just run a 75-80?
Are 53s cheaper?
Do they blow up that much mo-betta?
Are you only shooting <300yds, where the initial flatter trajectory is an asset?
If you're shooting far enough to dial for drop, you're gonna dial, whether it's a 53 or 75. But, the heavy is gonna earn ya some wind cheatin' once they get out there a bit...
Just playin' point vs. counter point!
fredo has some good points for sure! While I'm not shooting the 53 v-max in a 223AI I am using the 53 v-max in a
1/9 twist standard 223 at 3100 fps. I also am using the 53's in my 22-250 at 3770fps. with a 12 twist. The altitude
here where I live is 4400ft. The performance with these bullets has been very good for accuracy and the longer ranges
on the prairie rat population. I have read that 12 twist would be the very maximum for the 53 v-max to be stable. I think
for the 223AI I would consider 9 twist as then you know it would stabilize and you could go with the heavier bullets if
you choose. Just throwing some more thoughts out there for ya.
1/9 twist standard 223 at 3100 fps. I also am using the 53's in my 22-250 at 3770fps. with a 12 twist. The altitude
here where I live is 4400ft. The performance with these bullets has been very good for accuracy and the longer ranges
on the prairie rat population. I have read that 12 twist would be the very maximum for the 53 v-max to be stable. I think
for the 223AI I would consider 9 twist as then you know it would stabilize and you could go with the heavier bullets if
you choose. Just throwing some more thoughts out there for ya.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Freedo, 3800 is the real deal. There is a wild card, you never know if you are dealing with a fast or a slow barrel. I have several right now, 23" is 3750 with the 53 using N133 and cci br4.
H335 is the magic powder for the 223 AI, you just have to use some common sense. I have had less trouble out of 335 than N133 concerning pressure spikes at warmer temps.
I am not real keen on the 53g V max. I think that jacket quality varies, drives me crazy. 50 and 55g Sierra Blitz kings shoot as well as berger 52's, most explosive bullets in the 22 caliber line, best money a guy can spend.
50g TNT is shocking in how accurate it is, proven over the years in several 22 ppc's, custom 223's with zero freebore, and 223 AI's with zero freebore.
For shorter range shooting, 450 and under, 12T, zero freebore, Long barrel, speed with superb bench rest accuracy is amazing...pick a powder.
I built a Hart barrel, 9T with zero freebore in 223 and a 22 ppc the same 9T Hart. Tune window was very narrow and much more unforgiving of temp swings, but this may have been a function of the old AA2015 that I was shooting in the 223 and WC844 that I was shooting in the 22 ppc. Benchmark, 8208 did not exist back then, but I can tell you that giving up 150 fps is not something that I am going to do today. I could tell the difference in how the bullets expanded on p. dogs at 300 yards with 150 fps less.
Long barrel 223's(26"), 14T, zero freebore shoots the 50g Blitz kings at 3600 with ease using N133, BR-4's, with amazing accuracy.
Here are some groups that I shot to verify previous loads on a Hart 12T, zero freebore chamber on it's second chamber. These loads are safe in my rifle with my lot # of powder and are meant to be used as an illustration only.
Note the difference between primers. The same barrel is now on it's third chamber, and groups are a little bit larger, perhaps .060 on the largest side.
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10 shots
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I could see where 28.5g was starting to open up the groups
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H335 is the magic powder for the 223 AI, you just have to use some common sense. I have had less trouble out of 335 than N133 concerning pressure spikes at warmer temps.
I am not real keen on the 53g V max. I think that jacket quality varies, drives me crazy. 50 and 55g Sierra Blitz kings shoot as well as berger 52's, most explosive bullets in the 22 caliber line, best money a guy can spend.
50g TNT is shocking in how accurate it is, proven over the years in several 22 ppc's, custom 223's with zero freebore, and 223 AI's with zero freebore.
For shorter range shooting, 450 and under, 12T, zero freebore, Long barrel, speed with superb bench rest accuracy is amazing...pick a powder.
I built a Hart barrel, 9T with zero freebore in 223 and a 22 ppc the same 9T Hart. Tune window was very narrow and much more unforgiving of temp swings, but this may have been a function of the old AA2015 that I was shooting in the 223 and WC844 that I was shooting in the 22 ppc. Benchmark, 8208 did not exist back then, but I can tell you that giving up 150 fps is not something that I am going to do today. I could tell the difference in how the bullets expanded on p. dogs at 300 yards with 150 fps less.
Long barrel 223's(26"), 14T, zero freebore shoots the 50g Blitz kings at 3600 with ease using N133, BR-4's, with amazing accuracy.
Here are some groups that I shot to verify previous loads on a Hart 12T, zero freebore chamber on it's second chamber. These loads are safe in my rifle with my lot # of powder and are meant to be used as an illustration only.
Note the difference between primers. The same barrel is now on it's third chamber, and groups are a little bit larger, perhaps .060 on the largest side.
10 shots
I could see where 28.5g was starting to open up the groups
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[QUOTE="fredo, post: 37322242,
Phil, why not just run a 75-80?
QUOTE]
I have a 7.7 for the 75`s......
So, what's the 1:12 for, switch barrel? Or a separate rig to swap to when cooling barrels on a hot pdog town?
That 7.7 should allow ya a couple-3 thousand rounds of fun, at least. And if ya got an 1:8, reckon you could find a happy place to feed both barrels one diet...
Just sayin, I've not yet said to myself, "boy, I wish I went with a slower twist barrel to shoot lighter bullets". Heck, I have a 1:12 .224 sitting @ smithy, if ya really need one, right now!
A-man, if you're seeing honest 3800, more power to ya. I see 50gr TNTs noted on those target pics, not a 53Vmax? Anyhoo, I'll maintain that ~3600 is prolly a more reasonable expectation for someone reading along to attain, safely, from a .223AI.
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I run a 1:8 in my 20” ar15. 53gr vmax at mag length running 3250fps (regular .223). Devastating on pdogs/coyotes and pretty easy to hold 10ring at 600 yard tactical fclass targets. That is when the wind stays under 10mph
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Fredo, I shoot some 53's, but the accuracy will not hang with the bullets you see posted on the targets. There is nothing that is unusual about the 50g getting 3800 and the 55's doing 3700+, several friends do the same thing.
I can get the 53's down into the 3's, but that is not bug hole country.
The formula for fast 223 AI's is simple:
zero freebore or .020 max freebore for 55g and under bullet weights 12-14T
Twist appropriate for the bullets you want to shoot
26" barrels
If you throat the chamber for a 75g A max, and have a 8T, short barrel, then 3600 with the 53's is right on on the money.
I can get the 53's down into the 3's, but that is not bug hole country.
The formula for fast 223 AI's is simple:
zero freebore or .020 max freebore for 55g and under bullet weights 12-14T
Twist appropriate for the bullets you want to shoot
26" barrels
If you throat the chamber for a 75g A max, and have a 8T, short barrel, then 3600 with the 53's is right on on the money.
Phil
Gold $$ Contributor
Fred,
You know 90+% of my stuff wear`s more than one hat, you bet this one will too.....
I`m also screwing together a .20-223AI tube for this action, a 6x45AI, and who the heck knows what else....
Phil.
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