.223 Ackley in an AR

[miningshawn]

First post, bear with me...

I am building an AR in .223 Ackley. It is my first Ackley cartridge and I have lots of ideas but nothing concrete at the moment. If I believe the internet (where all things are true) one of two things will happen, the magazine won't feed and/or I will spend the rest of my days fire-forming instead of shooting.

I picked up a McGowen 24" 1:8 SS full profile (.750). The idea is to hopefully put full-house .223 in the bottom, be reasonably accurate, and have .223 AI come out the side.

The .223 Wylde chambering I use settled on 24.7gr of Varget, 77grTMK, CCI-BR4's, in a LC case. Is this a good load to begin from in the new AI? (I have 500 loaded already...). The end plan is to use Varget, BR4's, 77gr Bergers, and Starline brass. I do have an Annealeeze that I intend to use every reload. I am trying every trick I can to get OAL at the lands or as close as possible. Should I begin with the load I want to develop? When can I expect brass to be fully formed when shooting full-house loads? Should I close up the gas block some when shooting .223? (Seekins adjustable)

I also intend to full-size every time as I have had problems with AR's in the past. I may set a "nickel's" gap on the shell holder if the chamber is generous.

Any help or experience is welcomed!

 

[Larryh128]

I guess that I personally wouldn't load that many before you see how it shoots them. In order to fireform the cases properly, the shoulder (223) needs to contact the shoulder of the chamber. If it doesn't or if the bullet isn't jammed into the lands, 2 things will likely happen, they won't form in 1 firing and as they stretch you will likely get case separation after a few firings.

In other words, the chamber cannot be generous and probably why AR's aren't usually done with AI chambers. Varget is a great bolt gun powder but maybe there are better choices for a gas gun.

 

[fredo]

Sharp shoulders and touching lands are two 'no-no's for semi-autos.

The whole point of a semi-auto is to have it function reliably, and you'd note that semi-auto friendly cartridges are designed to facilitate it. I.e, body taper and mild shoulders keep feeding issues to an absolute minimum. Also, tolerances are more 'sloppy' to keep a semi, operating as one.

AI's and touching lands are all well & good...for bolt guns! Not that ya can't make an AI work in semi, it's just pushin' a rope that ya could pull with opting for a different cartridge. There are several .224cal options off the SPC & Grendel case that'll allow a performance advantage over a straight .223. I'd sooner rock one of those, over blowing out shoulders...

 

[Delfuego]

Feeding can be tricky, but you can figure it out. Might have to mess with the magazine lips some times the feed ramps or breach face can be an issue. I had feeding issues with a large frame AR in 260, solution was to re-profile the breachface slightly. Ran like a champ after that.

I would save the BR4's and ditch the tipped SMK's. The BR4 are too expensive for an AR and you will probably not see much if any accuracy difference. The tipped Match Kings are too long for AR magazines. Stick with 77SMK or similar. Also don't waste your good components while fireforming brass. Get some cheap stuff and blast away at paper, steel or pdogs. You need to break-in that barrel anyway!

 

[miningshawn]

Thanks! Great info so far, keep those ideas coming!

I guess I should go a little farther.

The idea is to make the best, most efficient use of the .384 bolt face in an AR using close to factory components including factory BCG, magazines, internals, etc...

I do most of my shooting at the range but can be found in the field for coyotes and gophers. The .223 Wylde has done well for me and I wanted to see how far I could go with an AR before moving up to a .473 bolt face.

What I did not want to do was start playing around with internals (just get a .... caliber!) and stick to the AR platform.

So far it sounds like there is feed ramp polishing and 2 firings before sharp shoulders develop. This is exactly why I joined this forum. Thanks again!

 

[Larryh128]

Thanks! Great info so far, keep those ideas coming!

I guess I should go a little farther.

The idea is to make the best, most efficient use of the .384 bolt face in an AR using close to factory components including factory BCG, magazines, internals, etc...

I do most of my shooting at the range but can be found in the field for coyotes and gophers. The .223 Wylde has done well for me and I wanted to see how far I could go with an AR before moving up to a .473 bolt face.

What I did not want to do was start playing around with internals (just get a .... caliber!) and stick to the AR platform.

So far it sounds like there is feed ramp polishing and 2 firings before sharp shoulders develop. This is exactly why I joined this forum. Thanks again!

Although it probably will become a dinosaur, the 22 Nosler would fit your bill. Same bolt face, only difference is the need to use a 6.8 mag. Some 223 mags will feed but it's a crap shoot. Better velo than the 223 AI.

 

[jepp2]

I picked up a McGowen 24" 1:8 SS full profile (.750).

Ok, some comments and questions for you. I have 3 223 AI's, 1 20 Bobcat, and 1 22-250 AI, all in bolt guns. I'm not an expert, but I do have some experience forming cases.

Questions:
-what is the freebore in the McGowen barrel? Do you plan to magazine feed or use a sled? I know with the WOA and Criterion barrels I have, I can't even get close to the lands when I magazine load with that bullet.
- You talk about having problems loading for an AR previously, are you sure you comfortable you have sizing and shoulder setback under control now?

Comments:
- You don't gain a lot with the AI over a 223. There is uniqueness to the AI, but there is little upside in an AR vs a lot of downside in trying to get it to feed. And if you can't, and you are limited to fireforming only, do you have a plan to utilize the formed brass.
- I don't know if your load will work, and how well it will form the shoulders. And while it might work well, it might not be the most accurate.
- The 223AI headspace is typically set at -0.004", so you should get a crush on the cartridge shoulder near the neck. But, that depends on the case head to datum of the brass you purchased. Provided you have a properly headspaced AI, you shouldn't have any problems with excessive case stretching.
-Prudent loading technique is to always work up your load for a new application (new rifle, caliber, powder, bullet, etc.) So you should start low and work up, not just try a load you are using in another rifle.
- Your "words" seem to indicate you are still fairly new to loading. I might be reading this incorrectly, but if I am correct, you are making a big step. It could prove to be a frustrating move that doesn't achieve your goals, while you spend money that can't really be recovered. But it might work out like a dream and you will be ecstatic.

I will include the fireforming loads by Graymist in case they are useful to you. Remember, start low and work up.

 

[jpretle]

Running the 223AI in a AR15, is a breeze. Fire forming loads are good enough for competition. Feeding of the AI cases will not cause problems. After several thousand rounds in competition, both slow fire and rapid fire, not one malfunction.

 

[miningshawn]

Ok! Back in montana and ready to start this. I just picked up a pound of R10x - it is one of the "fastest" powders i can lay hands on. I also picked up and mounted the new Vortex 6x24 50mm FFP Diamondback.
I am hoping that 23gr, cci 400's, starline brass, and Speer 55gr get me a good start.
McGowen has a barrel break-in procedure that i am following to the letter.
Today i hope to find out just one thing, will it fire-form closely on the first shot. McGowen also made me a stub gauge, so that helps.
And break in the new barrel.
I will grab a distance to lands using a .223 hornady OAL checker and post that up in an hour or so.
Thanks for all the great replies, i really want this one to work!

 

[JFrank]

Love Montana!!

 

[miningshawn]

Speer 55gr tmj = 2.245"
Berger 77gr = 2.275"
Sierra 77gr tmj = 2.308"
This is pretty good news. I can load the Bergers at or very close to the lands from the magazine.

 

[Larryh128]

Speer 55gr tmj = 2.245"
Berger 77gr = 2.275"
Sierra 77gr tmj = 2.308"
This is pretty good news. I can load the Bergers at or very close to the lands from the magazine.

What you need to be looking at is if the shoulder will "kiss" the shoulder of the chamber.

 

[284driver]

Do you by chance load on a Dillon 650?
Reason I ask, and this is my first time forming method...
I expand the case mouth up one caliber size with a neck turning expander, then I size the neck back down gradually until I get a slight crush for a bolt gun, and go just a little further for a gas gun. Just far enough that the bolt closes with very little to no resistance. Load them up and start shooting.
I've formed 6mm are turbo 40 and 6brx brass for ar15's this way and have had zero problems. The Dillon 650 makes all these steps so much easier.
Also, no feeding issues with either of those improved cases.